It’s a thought experiment, generally acknowledged as very insightful. The very fact that examples of it’s reversed-gendered version are statistically microscopic makes it a relevant topic in writing across all media today.
No, it’s not about individual movies, though that makes for good flame wars (don’t movies always?) Like Schrodinger’s Cat, it’s about understanding the larger implications:
“It starts with the very basic question: of all the many, many characters in this movie — ten, or fifteen, or twenty, or more — are at least two of those characters female? And in this first step, an astonishing number of movies fail. And if we adjust for race and ignore gender, we still see a surprising number of movies that fail.”
It’s not really about good or bad, or even feminist or not-feminist. (The Mardoll piece mentions comparing ST:Voyager with Firefly: Firefly doesn’t pass BT very well.)
The tldr: “That is what the Bechdel test is for. Not for the one-off artistic efforts, but for the aggregate effect as a whole on minority voices in our culture.”
What would the modern combat genre look like with more women characters in conversation? Seriously.
This is one reason why Paul’s work stands out. It explores these questions and possibilities earnestly, as we’re seeing in this storyline.
All in all, though, it’s probably good it’s out in the open and being delt with in some manner. This time it was relatively minor. Keeping it bottled up inside too long could have resullted in much worse mayhem when it did finally burst forth.
Agreed. No fatalities, no irrevocable horrid incident with Justin, no obvious public sphinx transformations that would have required explanation or coverups, Shelly is well aware of and responsibly concerned about her trigger-ability, Monica and the gang know the score, Phix has stepped in to play Dutch Auntie and help Shelly learn to maintain control… all good.
And, Bud gets coffee and pancakes for breakfast.
All in all, as post-mayhem breakfasts go… it could have been much wurst.
Oh, you misunderstand. Bud was mimicing the style of guitar-playing (well, it was a stringed instrument very much like a guitar) that she remembered being popularized by a famous Lanthian musician-priest, back in the days of her living youth. You know… Felonious Monk? Possibly an ancestor of our own punnish bmonk?
Seems to me that Bud is the most “normal” of the three, in terms of emotions and insecurities. Brandi is very controlled and methodical, and while I have known people like her, I’ve always been wary of when they might explode. Jin is still recovering from her “repair” and has not yet shown what she will be. I like Bud. She’s fallible, and the most human.
We’re dealing with beings that could potentially wipe out all life on the planet and all you can say is “Mmmmmmmm… Pancakes.“? Well I guess you have to know where your priorities are. Mmmmmmmm… Pancakes.
It’s not that the end of life as we know it and the destruction of Earth are not on our minds, but we were well trained: You need a good breakfast to start out the day properly.
I’ll take my pancakes with the Butter Pecan syrup they serve at Ihop, and a hot Tea, Earl Grey or Lipton is Okay, with bacon, scrambled eggs and hash browns on the side if you please. (where was I?) Oh YEAH! Now lets hear Acacias’ side to all this. Maybe seeing Shelly do what she did put the “Fear Of God” into her.
Not all that long ago, Bud was telling Brandi that she wanted to have the experience of being a young woman… the things that she (and Brandi) were denied by having been murdered at a young age by the Lanthian priests.
She got some of what she asked for… behaving impulsively and heedlessly, while bar-hopping and drunk is almost a rite of passage for college-age kids these days (and probably in every generation back to the original Beaker People).
Regretting it the next morning is also part of the package. Welcome to young adulthood, Bud… here are your aspirin! 🙂
I don’t know if “resilient” is what it is, as much as “stubborn enough to make the same mistake over and over until the correct action seeps past the first several layers of hard candy” as far as Comanches are concerned. But, as a wise man said, “If you fail a hundred times before you succeed, then you have learned one hundred and one things.”
Budsy-Wudsy didn’t relate her encouragement, did she?
As Spider Robinson put it in Mindkiller: The Universe is quite accommodating. It will willingly hit you square between the eyes with the thousand-pound s***hammer as many times as you require to wake up and listen to the message.
But, yes, trying and failing is a necessary part of the process of learning and growing. It’s a bit easier if we work at not repeating any specific failure too many times, of course… but trying to avoid all failure will cost us many opportunities to succeed.
No, Bud hasn’t yet fessed up to having been a goad… be interesting to see if she does.
You’re saying that Brandi is simply cooking up mischief, manipulating her friends and their love/sex lives in order to make a broth out of a bed situation. Shame on you… that’s a terrible pun.
As least Brandi isn’t drinking as much while cooking as Graham Kerr used to do…
Here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty.
isn’t that usually said by the 2000 pound canary?
not that said canary would be more than a tasty tidbit for Shelly… Or Monica… or Georgette… or Bud… or
anybody else notice almost all the powerful characters in this webcomic are females?
the only male with power is a avatar of drunkeness.
Peersonally, I don’t think that the men in their lives mind all that much.
🙂 I think you will find that most hispanic / american indian girls are powerful and sexy… And the men are very happy!!!! 😀 😀
and the short girls… wow, double powerhouse!!!! 😀 I know, I married one 🙂 🙂 🙂
Georgette’s not all-powerful…she’s just all-eating. 😛
Valkeiper, I poured over Wapsi Square pretty thoroughly a few months ago, and it very nearly fails the Bechdel test— if the genders are reversed.
I think there’s a moment where Kevin and Yummy Tea exchange a line about art. But otherwise, when alone, the guys only talk about the ladies.
Don’t know if it’s deliberate, but I find that pretty damn awesome.
That must be the stupidest, most pointless test/yardstick I’ve ever seen.
It’s a thought experiment, generally acknowledged as very insightful. The very fact that examples of it’s reversed-gendered version are statistically microscopic makes it a relevant topic in writing across all media today.
It’s not a thought experiment. It’s a silly feminist criteria for judging the quality of a movie.
No, it’s not about individual movies, though that makes for good flame wars (don’t movies always?) Like Schrodinger’s Cat, it’s about understanding the larger implications:
“It starts with the very basic question: of all the many, many characters in this movie — ten, or fifteen, or twenty, or more — are at least two of those characters female? And in this first step, an astonishing number of movies fail. And if we adjust for race and ignore gender, we still see a surprising number of movies that fail.”
(Ana Mardoll at the Slacktiverse)
In the original comic, it’s obvious that it’s the dearth of movies available that speak to the characters, not the quality of an individual film.
Mmm. Pancakes!
Most war movies would fail that test, so I guess “Saving Private Ryan” or “Band of Brothers” would not be good?
It’s not really about good or bad, or even feminist or not-feminist. (The Mardoll piece mentions comparing ST:Voyager with Firefly: Firefly doesn’t pass BT very well.)
The tldr: “That is what the Bechdel test is for. Not for the one-off artistic efforts, but for the aggregate effect as a whole on minority voices in our culture.”
What would the modern combat genre look like with more women characters in conversation? Seriously.
This is one reason why Paul’s work stands out. It explores these questions and possibilities earnestly, as we’re seeing in this storyline.
Bud is feeling guilty about something…
Most likely because she said “Yeah right” with the tone of voice that is usually followed by the words “About that…”
Yup!
Her conscience is nagging her. Probably because Shelly did NOT actually “started it”
So, basically Shelly’s description of Bud’s role is accurate.
Incitement to riot? Check.
Instigation of whirling mayhem? Check.
Felonious air-guitar, after the fact? Check.
Seems as if Bud’s hangover does include the optional (and very human) taste of “Gee, now I wish I hadn’t done that” in her mouth.
All in all, though, it’s probably good it’s out in the open and being delt with in some manner. This time it was relatively minor. Keeping it bottled up inside too long could have resullted in much worse mayhem when it did finally burst forth.
Agreed. No fatalities, no irrevocable horrid incident with Justin, no obvious public sphinx transformations that would have required explanation or coverups, Shelly is well aware of and responsibly concerned about her trigger-ability, Monica and the gang know the score, Phix has stepped in to play Dutch Auntie and help Shelly learn to maintain control… all good.
And, Bud gets coffee and pancakes for breakfast.
All in all, as post-mayhem breakfasts go… it could have been much wurst.
/clink/
Felonious?? I think the air guitar was awesomely timed and appropriate…therefore not felonious. 😛
Oh, you misunderstand. Bud was mimicing the style of guitar-playing (well, it was a stringed instrument very much like a guitar) that she remembered being popularized by a famous Lanthian musician-priest, back in the days of her living youth. You know… Felonious Monk? Possibly an ancestor of our own punnish bmonk?
{Rattles Pun Jar menacingly}
Hmmm… one to light the fuze, the other to explode…
I think that last, qualifies as an Oops.
A very big OOPS!
Uh oh.
I don’t think Shelly was telling the whole truth to Monica.
As Paul Harvey used to say, “And now … the rest of the story“!
Seems to me that Bud is the most “normal” of the three, in terms of emotions and insecurities. Brandi is very controlled and methodical, and while I have known people like her, I’ve always been wary of when they might explode. Jin is still recovering from her “repair” and has not yet shown what she will be. I like Bud. She’s fallible, and the most human.
There’s a good reason why Bud’s been my favorite character for a long time. 😉
Mmmmmmmm… Pancakes.
We’re dealing with beings that could potentially wipe out all life on the planet and all you can say is “Mmmmmmmm… Pancakes.“? Well I guess you have to know where your priorities are. Mmmmmmmm… Pancakes.
I flip over flapjacks.
David
>shakes pun bottle<
pay up.
>clink<
Meh. Flapjacks leave me pretty flat.
World destruction? Flaming plasma death? Meh, Later maybe. In the meantime we all still gotta eat. So, yeah … mmmmmmm … pancakes.
Well said, sir!
potentially wipe out all life on the planet?? nah, it only takes a good coffe and pancakes to calm that beast…. 😛 🙂
It’s not that the end of life as we know it and the destruction of Earth are not on our minds, but we were well trained: You need a good breakfast to start out the day properly.
We’re just keeping our priorities in order here!
Yeah, pour a little honey over them and >smack<. there is no better breakfast 'wake-up'.
I’m getting the impression that Bud is agreeing Shelly’s version is pretty close to the truth (even though Bud never heard it).
I still want to see Bud’s side of the story.
One of these days, Brandi and Monica are going to remember “Tell Bud, Shelly, and Jin the obvious BEFORE they go and do exactly the opposite.”
I’d include Tina in there, but we all know she intentionally doesn’t tell them beforehand. It’s more fun for her this way.
I’ll take my pancakes with the Butter Pecan syrup they serve at Ihop, and a hot Tea, Earl Grey or Lipton is Okay, with bacon, scrambled eggs and hash browns on the side if you please. (where was I?) Oh YEAH! Now lets hear Acacias’ side to all this. Maybe seeing Shelly do what she did put the “Fear Of God” into her.
Not all that long ago, Bud was telling Brandi that she wanted to have the experience of being a young woman… the things that she (and Brandi) were denied by having been murdered at a young age by the Lanthian priests.
She got some of what she asked for… behaving impulsively and heedlessly, while bar-hopping and drunk is almost a rite of passage for college-age kids these days (and probably in every generation back to the original Beaker People).
Regretting it the next morning is also part of the package. Welcome to young adulthood, Bud… here are your aspirin! 🙂
I don’t know if “resilient” is what it is, as much as “stubborn enough to make the same mistake over and over until the correct action seeps past the first several layers of hard candy” as far as Comanches are concerned. But, as a wise man said, “If you fail a hundred times before you succeed, then you have learned one hundred and one things.”
Budsy-Wudsy didn’t relate her encouragement, did she?
As Spider Robinson put it in Mindkiller: The Universe is quite accommodating. It will willingly hit you square between the eyes with the thousand-pound s***hammer as many times as you require to wake up and listen to the message.
But, yes, trying and failing is a necessary part of the process of learning and growing. It’s a bit easier if we work at not repeating any specific failure too many times, of course… but trying to avoid all failure will cost us many opportunities to succeed.
No, Bud hasn’t yet fessed up to having been a goad… be interesting to see if she does.
Why does this remind me of the conversations TV chefs have while they’re describing a recipe?
Maybe Brandi’s manipulations aren’t so much like a chess match as they are like…
…cooking.
Related to nothing at all, thanks for all your great edits over at the wiki.
Old Wolf: My pleasure.
Dave: I realize Bud’s a senior citizen, but I don’t think that she makes broth in bed.
I suppose she might after big binge night, though. In theory.
For those not paying attention, the Wapsi Square wiki is right here. If you’re reading this, you probably know enough to care – even to help!
You’re saying that Brandi is simply cooking up mischief, manipulating her friends and their love/sex lives in order to make a broth out of a bed situation. Shame on you… that’s a terrible pun.
As least Brandi isn’t drinking as much while cooking as Graham Kerr used to do…
ahhh. Graham Kerr, the galloping gourmet!!! 🙂 🙂 check his wiki, he is still living in mount vernon! 🙂
“Patched holes in her soul.” Awesome phrase.