illiad, maybe not protected by any law (which I would debate–some laws apply to all creatures, and many to all intelligent beings), but apparently there is a higher power taking a hand. She’s not quite as dangerous as she believes at the moment.
remember, Nudge is no longer inside Tina, she’s back in The Library with Phix as Co-Librarian. and since the Demon-Collective (DC for short) knows this, i highly doubt that they would ALLOW Nudge back in anymore. the only reason Nudge was able to hide so long was that the DC inside Tina was stripped of memories prior to this CM Loop and the point of Tina’s “death” I’m sure the death trauma scrambled some other stuff as well, so they never knew that Nudge WASN’T originally part of the DC.
Last time a demon regularly spoke out of time, it turned out to be Nudge, and became a new minor character.
Recently a demon’s been speaking out of turn in most of Tina’s appearances. Question is, has this all been the same demon, or multiple ones? Perhaps the liberation of Nudge has caused the entire collective to be more independent?
I’m thinking multiple demons too. If nothing else, it would seem odd from a narrative perspective to introduce another character from inside Tina’s head when we so recently introduced Nudge, and barely used her after her reveal.
Or perhaps Tina’s new role is to populate the entire minor-character roster, and send Katherine and Amanda to Owen-land. (>^_^)>
Well now, this is getting interesting.
Maybe this is what Shelly secretly wanted. A “watcher” that dams in Shellinx’ power.
A strict “mother” so to speak. The mother she’s been craving to have, ever since her own mom died….
Ps: Monica should have answered “yes, and I can poit parts of You to different places. What’s Your point?”
I mean, if an experienced poiter can poit away pee&poo from inside a body, what says they cannot poit away a head from a body? Or a brain from the skull? Or a heart from the chest? Or a giant javelin in a chest?
That’s true, assuming she could react that fast. She does, however, have instinctual bullet poiting power. Perhaps she has emergency poiting power as well in the face of extreme danger. Even danger she cannot consciously see coming (like the bullets, and she wasn’t even facing them). By that I mean poit the attacker away or around her, as she did the bullets.
On the other hand, Shell has plunged a weapon into Monica before. Tina ordering her around isn’t news either. But frankly, anyone who is not in control of themselves can be a deadly weapon; the degree is kinda moot. Shelly is scared of being a puppet, not of being a powerhouse.
What I want to know is how long Creepy is going to put up with all these other people trying to get into Shelly’s driver’s seat.
who’s to say that CG DIDN’T TAKE OVER HERSELF and put the Shelly we know, in the boiler-room for the few seconds the fight took? then let her resume control afterwards.
She possibly would have but Tina suddenly going banana’s makes me think Shelly just bruised Monica’s jaw a little so she might be concentraiting on that instead of a remark 🙂
I bet Shelly hasn’t thought about Monica’s powers that way before…though she shouldn’t have too much trouble with that line of thought given the fact that she’s been poited way up in the air without a parachute before…
Shelly seems to be feeling the same way Tina did when she warned the girls that she is a wild animal and will turn on them without a moments notice. She is afraid of that split second kill she could do. She is a caring soul after all.
Cat fight hell. Minneapolis is on the verge of witnessing a smack down between titans. And I have a sneaking suspicion that Shelly is way out of her weight class with Tina.
Ahh…but Tina just said that Shelly is neither human nor sphinx. Maybe that means it will work? Also, I didn’t know if it was definitively stated that sphinxes are immune to demonic influence. Can someone point me to it if it was? 🙂
Alrighty then … raise your hands, all those who saw this coming … didn’t think so.
Anyway, she can do something to stop a sphinx? That’s quite a feat considering the members of the collective can become sphinx chow at any moment. I imagine Tina means she would work from the other side via demons in some way. Heck, they’re probably already in place simply awaiting the word.
Kinda leaves Shelly out in the cold to fend for herself where demons are concerned. No Sphinxy laws to protect her. I wonder if CG has her back in that regard? Does seem like Tina’s kinda overreacting here though.
I believe it was stated that Demons (like Tina) effectively have mind control powers … to the extent that they can make people do what they say … but .. they cannot use their powers on people do to an agreement with the Sphinxes ….
Nah! Tina’s not over-reacting… Shelly IS! and Tina ALREADY got the better of Shelly, the same way that she did when she fought Nudge in human-form… she “suggested” something to Shelly, and she did it… right now Tina told Shelly that she won’t hurt Monica, in her scary-eyes, Jedi-mind control mode and Shelly just WON’T be able to hurt M anymore… now, that’s not to say she can’t hurt someone ELSE, like oh, say Justin… but never Monica anymore…
Tina demonstrated that she knew Shelly was sphinxy (the pot crushing test) and that she could command override her (the fight with Nudge). All that before Shell went to the Time Forest. In that regard, we’ve all seen this coming. The only new info is that demon law doesn’t have a category for Shelly either.
The critical issue is that Shelly knows that others can control her, and this is terrifying. Again, this is a long-running part of the plot. Notably, Bud is the person who:
1) Shelly has confided in about this
2) Likes Creepy
3) Did not get along with Shelly on the 56 timelines that Creepy had not been created
4) Goaded Shelly into punching the racists, and celebrated when it worked
I believe Bud has been looking into helping Shelly with her fundamental problem of self agency, and has discovered some major clues. This may also give Bud insight into coping with her similar issues, being a golem. All these threats among friends are a distraction. And that’s what I see happening.
Yeah, but that’s like saying “You’re neither Elf NOR Human”… to a D&D HALF-ELF…
it’s Technically correct because it implies Shelly is not FULL Human OR a FULL Sphinx…. of which she is neither, or Both depending on your viewpoint. Remember, the SPHINXES in the Time-Forest couldn’t pigeon-hole her into a category either!
Hurm. If I understand this correctly, as a half breed(and yes, I am aware of how loaded that term is) Shelly has no legal standing as far the demons are concerned. She is efectively a non person, and therefore open to being treated as they see fit. As a Commanche, she’s had to deal with crap from ordinary humans. Now she has to deal with similar crap from the supernatural side. Beyond the current crisis, this has some ugly implications.
Has Shelly lost her freaking mind ? She never before gave a rats ass about the people she knocked out, why now all of a sudden ?
Far as we know, she didn’t kill those guys, so what is she so afraid of now ?
She’s afraid that she easily could kill the next person who crosses her… without knowing that it’s going to happen, and without being able to stop it when it does.
Shelly knows she’s been a bully… but she doesn’t see herself as a killer, and certainly doesn’t want to become a killer who kills robotically and without conscious control.
Until she understands what’s happening to her… her physical change when with Justin, and her striking out on “autopilot”… she’s going to be scared.
Aside from what Dave said, keep in mind Shelly’s expressed fears of her strength in the past (Bud almost breaking Shelly’s arm incident) and has always struggled with self doubt (going back to the early days with the boiler room).
Shelly’s showing that, despite 80k years as a sphinx in an alternate world, she still has these same fears, and the increase in power (due to her sphinx-ing) has only enhanced them.
All very true from you two, but seeing that racism is probably as insulting as you can be towards other humans, she has shown, probably subconciously, amazing restraint in not using her full power.
It might seem far-fetched, but one could argue that the full extent of her power only becomes appearant in really threatening situations.
I’d question that. Racism is common, and unimaginative. There’s plenty of other ways to be far more offensive to your fellow man. If your or I reverted to punching every racist that came our way, we’d be sitting in jail while Racist-Joe continued being, well, racist.
Now, for SHELLY specifically, I agree she is showing more restraint than she gives herself credit, considering she not only has minimal control of her newfound strength, but also alcohol and Bud egging her onward.
But I doubt the racist jibes really mattered to Shelly much. It’s her current emotional state (Officer TB and readjusting to life woes), several drinks, a drunk Bud, and sphinx-rage (if Phix is any indication, they are a quick-to-anger race).
The racist stooges just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They’re nothing more than a mirror in the women’s bathroom.
Shelly is facing her version of the Man of Steel,
Woman of Kleenex problem. She’s just recently back from having spent 80K years as a gigantic, powerful being in her Sphinx form. Now that she’s back in her body, she’s discovered her superb vision, ability to transform, and now lightning speed ON TOP OF her formerly strong but now super strength! Rightly so, she is very concerned about her abilities and the chance of harming others.
As for Tina — it’s the Alladin Genie problem: PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS, Itty-bitty living space! As the demons are unconstrained by “Law,” who knows what they could do? Nudge was in control by usurping the Superego position. What if Tina’s Id gets turned loose?
Shelly’s going through the difficult adjustment common to new superheros: All of a sudden they’ve got powers far beyond those of mortal man. And it scares them, what they can do, and MIGHT do. Ben Grimm, when he wasn’t angsting over being the Thing, would be distressed over how he lived in a world of tissue paper, where he could go through walls and people with equal ease…
Now, there are those who acquire superpowers, and do not go through the sort of angst and self-limit-setting process you’ve described. Rather, they just revel in their powers, regardless of the collateral damage which ensues. They don’t care to be responsible.
We mostly call these folks “the bad guys.”
At best, they’re “chaotic neutral” and you sorta have to treat them the way you’d treat tornados, hurricanes, and wild animals… with cautious respect and plenty of distance.
Shelly… well, she’s got plenty of Chaotic in her character makeup (don’t know about her facial makeup… does she even use any?)… I think she’d prefer to be a Lawful Good but has always had a struggle on both points.
Just the kind of comforting thing Shelly needed to hear, to help her calm down with the assurance that she’s not entirely out alone in the unknown in facing her situation.
Yay! Tina’s been getting the shaft lately, between Phix and Bud bullying her. Nice to see her getting a chance to stand up again.
You’d think Bud’s “I could break your arm with zero effort” lesson would have taught Shelly she’s small potatoes compared to the other supernaturals. Or Monica’s free skydiving lesson. But, considering how dense and self-doubting Shelly’s known to be, this is rather normal for her.
In fact, if anything, this little arc is confirming that, despite spending 80k years as a sphinx in an alternate reality, Shelly is still Shelly. Is she reverting to her former self now that she’s in the wapsi-world in her human body again? Or did Shelly never quite develop mentally as much as she thought she did?
Tina’s return from victim-land (admitted, one of my 2 faves, alongside Brandi) and re-examination of Shelly’s current character have rekindled my interest in this subplot (which, admittedly, I was doubting last Thursday).
Tina uses an “indirect trigger” i.e. Creating a situation where she can legitimately help Shelly by showing her that there are entities that can stop her, so, however convoluted it may seem in the first place, Shelly knows there are people around her that care enough , and are capable enough to stop her in her tracks when stuff goes haywire.
And, on a side-note, time doesn’t actually mean anything to a demon (collective),so, Shelly’s speed won’t help her at all.
Basically what Tina does is being a strict mom to a Shelly that longs, craves for someone of authority to define borders for her. Something kids, having a hard time defining their own borders and limits, also tend to do.
It sounds a bit complex, but remembering some classes in Pedagogics, the tutor also mentioned that kids actually want and need borders, to function properly.
Same for Shellinx here. She’s afraid she cannot hold herself back, so Tina provides her, in her own inmitable way, with these borders and limits, by triggering this situation by some smart manipulation of Monica.
Tina’s a psychologist, or at least she was, and it seems that some of her former self is ingrained in the demon-collective too.
Ah, one of so many reasons I love Tina. Shellys situation is completely understandable, even though she’s surrounded by super powered people some of whom are way stronger than she is, she still has the “Superman problem” i.e. everyone is made of cardboard. Shelly may not be the strongest of the bunch, but she could still accidently rip Mon in half and I’m pretty sure that’d be a bad day for her.
She’s had a bad habit of speaking before thinking about how she could hurt people (think back to that time in the Cerberus Club with Jacqui when she lashed out at Jin…I’m too tired to search the archives more today :P). Now she’s worried about how acting without forethought could hurt people…and what does she do? She acts and speaks without thinking about the harm she could do (or make others think she would do). *shakes head* Poor Shelly. All that time in the Time Forest and she still regresses.
Perhaps…but it kind of reminds me of The Incredibles…when the family is having dinner and the kids start fighting. They all used their powers on each other. *shrugs* Maybe that’s just the way super-powered people behave. It’s not likely that a group of such people wouldn’t use their powers to get the upper hand or prove a point.
I think it shows a measure of their humanity that they feel the need to use their “inhuman” powers that way. Only a very wise and rational being would be likely to avoid resorting to extremes to prove a point. 🙂
In my way of thinking their “powers” are an integral part of them. How do you turn your brains off, or your athletic ability? It is why Monica avoided the bullets, because the poiting is part of her and just like you automatically pull your hand off of a hot burner, these powers bypass the conscious nervous system and run on the autonomic nervous system. They may use them consciously like you can control your breathing, but it also runs by itself. You guys are now thinking about your breathing by the way. 🙂
I think Tina is refering to her power to make people do what she says. The laws (enforced by the sphinxes) are that she cannot use her power to kill people, but Shelly is no longer ‘people’.
Or maybe she is channeling Nudge, which seems to often be the case since they were separated, and is tricking Shelly into thinking in another direction.
I expect that’s a typo, but typo or intentional, it’s an awesome reference to Vinge’s Tines from A Fire Uoon the Deep, The Blabber, and “The Children of the Sky”. The tines are collective creatures composed of cooperating individuals. They differ from Tina in that the cooperating individuals are not really coherent intelligent entities, but are quite similar in that they *do* sort of contribute their specialties to the whole.
Monica should have come back with, “And I could poit you into a wall, bitch!” Does Monica’s manifestation of her poiting that allows her to have bullets graze off her apply also to fists?
This really makes me want the girls to form a super team! The interesting incarnations of the Avengers, Justice League, etc. were the ones that had problems amongst the members – like when Batman knocked out Guy Gardner with one punch cuz GG was being a jerk.
Super team! Super team! Super team!
If I ever get to go to a con where Paul is, everyone behind me in line is going to have to wait a while so I can get a sketch of the supernatural cast as a super team. 🙂
She’s already done it by saying it. “You will not hurt Monica.” Demons’ words have influence.
Interesting that demon law seems to exclusionary rather than inclusionary (i.e. Shelly is neither human or sphinx -not- Shelly is both human and sphinx + conscience elemental). This could a very exploitable flaw, especially since demons are not their own judges here.
Also note that Shelly has crushed demons into another state of existence, when put under stress at a very young age. Careful Tina. We already know that sometimes you shouldn’t say controlling things around Shelly.
Then again, maybe that’s what the demons are after: If they’re forcibly combined, they become a singular person.
Instead of The Collective That Calls Itself Tina, you’d end up with just plain Tina.
I spent three days trying to decide if I should go with Bud or Tina in my name. I figured I had decided but Paul keeps going on with things like this and it just keeps me in a perpetual state of “did I choose wisely”?
Oh yes, THIS is going to help Monica’s trust / fear of betrayal issues. “My friend, who’s already stuck a knife in my brain, is now threatening to rip my jaw off. I need different friends.” 🙁
Tinas not moving, also notice her ‘pupils’ are getting smaller because she is “LOCKING PHASERS” asitwere, and then she’ll burn a table in half – down the middle right in front of Shelly.
They may not need to be protected by law. It’s entirely possible that a demon’s Jedi Mind Tricks won’t work on golems. We know that the golems can have their programming altered or invoked by a glyph speaker, but whether their mental mechanisms are still “human enough” to be affected by a demon’s powers hasn’t ever (I think) been made clear.
Consider the fact that during the Calendar Machine crunchdown, Jin’s “Queen” Doubt demon was confronting Bud, would have had plenty of opportunity to try to compel her, and didn’t do so, even when she was losing. If she’d been able to compel Bud, she could have said something as simple as “Bud – sit down, shut up, and do not attempt to interfere”, and she’d have won.
Monica’s Doubt was able to emotionally manipulate Jin back when Bud poited her (Doubt) into her (Jin); but when Jin decided she’d had enough there was nothing Doubt could do to stop her. So I would assume the GGG can’t be compelled to do anything by a demon, although a clever one might be able to have influence.
You might want to keep in mind that Monica is herself an alpha female, that she has already smacked down Tina and Shelly and Nudge, in one confrontation.
Monica just might surprise the hell out of the both of them.
Tina’s command “You will not hurt Monica” (assuming that it is in fact a demonic compulsion command) was narrowly worded. Tina didn’t say “You will not hurt anyone in my cafe” or anything like that.
Tina could be at risk herself right now! Shelly could conceivably decide to turn Tina into a gruesome lesson in internal anatomy (either via a wall-crushing sucker punch, or by going sphinx and chowing down) before Tina could say anything more. I wonder whether Tina thought of that, before she stepped in and spoke.
I doubt Shelly will do anything like that… she doesn’t want to be acting dangerously. However, whatever within her is “pulling her strings” might just take violent exception to the idea of Tina controlling her, and decide to eliminate that particular problem at its source.
Just when it was gettin’ good.
It gets better.
that is quite beyond a badass quote, that is sincerely the most straightforward portrayal of knowledge with intent to harm that is possible.
oops
Scary Tina is scary.
I’m not sure we’ve ever seen her scary pupils squinched down to glaring near-points like that…
Well, she never needed to read someone the riot act before, now did she? Snarky advice, confusing riddles and so on, but genuine anger? That is new.
Bet you a cooky next upgrade we see Shelly and Monica clinging to each other in united terror from their lovely demon barrista.
Because we’ve never seen her that pissed before.
:O :O AND not protected by any law!!! yikes!!!
illiad, maybe not protected by any law (which I would debate–some laws apply to all creatures, and many to all intelligent beings), but apparently there is a higher power taking a hand. She’s not quite as dangerous as she believes at the moment.
Do we finally get to see exactly what Tina is capable of? Probably not, but still…
Isn’t that Nudge’s voice (the gray text)? Or is it one of the other demons speaking outside of the collective?
A demon speaking out of the collective.
remember, Nudge is no longer inside Tina, she’s back in The Library with Phix as Co-Librarian. and since the Demon-Collective (DC for short) knows this, i highly doubt that they would ALLOW Nudge back in anymore. the only reason Nudge was able to hide so long was that the DC inside Tina was stripped of memories prior to this CM Loop and the point of Tina’s “death” I’m sure the death trauma scrambled some other stuff as well, so they never knew that Nudge WASN’T originally part of the DC.
Oh…I think they suspected that Nudge wasn’t one of them…they just weren’t sure who she was. 🙂
Last time a demon regularly spoke out of time, it turned out to be Nudge, and became a new minor character.
Recently a demon’s been speaking out of turn in most of Tina’s appearances. Question is, has this all been the same demon, or multiple ones? Perhaps the liberation of Nudge has caused the entire collective to be more independent?
I bet it’s multiple ones. Probably related to their specific natures. I wonder if this is Tina’s Fear speaking, or maybe aggression? If there is one.
I’m thinking multiple demons too. If nothing else, it would seem odd from a narrative perspective to introduce another character from inside Tina’s head when we so recently introduced Nudge, and barely used her after her reveal.
Or perhaps Tina’s new role is to populate the entire minor-character roster, and send Katherine and Amanda to Owen-land. (>^_^)>
Well now, this is getting interesting.
Maybe this is what Shelly secretly wanted. A “watcher” that dams in Shellinx’ power.
A strict “mother” so to speak. The mother she’s been craving to have, ever since her own mom died….
If that makes any sense. To me it does.
Ps: Monica should have answered “yes, and I can poit parts of You to different places. What’s Your point?”
I mean, if an experienced poiter can poit away pee&poo from inside a body, what says they cannot poit away a head from a body? Or a brain from the skull? Or a heart from the chest? Or a giant javelin in a chest?
That’s true, assuming she could react that fast. She does, however, have instinctual bullet poiting power. Perhaps she has emergency poiting power as well in the face of extreme danger. Even danger she cannot consciously see coming (like the bullets, and she wasn’t even facing them). By that I mean poit the attacker away or around her, as she did the bullets.
On the other hand, Shell has plunged a weapon into Monica before. Tina ordering her around isn’t news either. But frankly, anyone who is not in control of themselves can be a deadly weapon; the degree is kinda moot. Shelly is scared of being a puppet, not of being a powerhouse.
What I want to know is how long Creepy is going to put up with all these other people trying to get into Shelly’s driver’s seat.
who’s to say that CG DIDN’T TAKE OVER HERSELF and put the Shelly we know, in the boiler-room for the few seconds the fight took? then let her resume control afterwards.
She possibly would have but Tina suddenly going banana’s makes me think Shelly just bruised Monica’s jaw a little so she might be concentraiting on that instead of a remark 🙂
As for the giant javelin: it’s got luggage. The restof the poits are deadly. 😀
($5 in the pun jar.)
I bet Shelly hasn’t thought about Monica’s powers that way before…though she shouldn’t have too much trouble with that line of thought given the fact that she’s been poited way up in the air without a parachute before…
I like that idea Jay-Em 🙂
I don’t know what Shelly is freaking out about. M has access to any number of entities that could tackle her if she went rogue.
Shelly seems to be feeling the same way Tina did when she warned the girls that she is a wild animal and will turn on them without a moments notice. She is afraid of that split second kill she could do. She is a caring soul after all.
Yay! Catfight!
Cat fight hell. Minneapolis is on the verge of witnessing a smack down between titans. And I have a sneaking suspicion that Shelly is way out of her weight class with Tina.
nah, Tina already won just by having Shelly LISTEN TO HER TALKING…
Ooo…fair point! I’d forgotten about demonic influence! 🙂
Yeah… Tina’s last sentence does sound like a Command, not just a warning.
demons cant control spinxes, spinxes keep demons inline. now that her demon powers are active she might be immune to commands
Ahh…but Tina just said that Shelly is neither human nor sphinx. Maybe that means it will work? Also, I didn’t know if it was definitively stated that sphinxes are immune to demonic influence. Can someone point me to it if it was? 🙂
Holy shit Tina looks crazier than the Joker right now with the hold back of Batman…
*gets the popcorn ready*
Alrighty then … raise your hands, all those who saw this coming … didn’t think so.
Anyway, she can do something to stop a sphinx? That’s quite a feat considering the members of the collective can become sphinx chow at any moment. I imagine Tina means she would work from the other side via demons in some way. Heck, they’re probably already in place simply awaiting the word.
Kinda leaves Shelly out in the cold to fend for herself where demons are concerned. No Sphinxy laws to protect her. I wonder if CG has her back in that regard? Does seem like Tina’s kinda overreacting here though.
It’s been a long time coming that’s for sure.
I believe it was stated that Demons (like Tina) effectively have mind control powers … to the extent that they can make people do what they say … but .. they cannot use their powers on people do to an agreement with the Sphinxes ….
Nah! Tina’s not over-reacting… Shelly IS! and Tina ALREADY got the better of Shelly, the same way that she did when she fought Nudge in human-form… she “suggested” something to Shelly, and she did it… right now Tina told Shelly that she won’t hurt Monica, in her scary-eyes, Jedi-mind control mode and Shelly just WON’T be able to hurt M anymore… now, that’s not to say she can’t hurt someone ELSE, like oh, say Justin… but never Monica anymore…
Tina demonstrated that she knew Shelly was sphinxy (the pot crushing test) and that she could command override her (the fight with Nudge). All that before Shell went to the Time Forest. In that regard, we’ve all seen this coming. The only new info is that demon law doesn’t have a category for Shelly either.
The critical issue is that Shelly knows that others can control her, and this is terrifying. Again, this is a long-running part of the plot. Notably, Bud is the person who:
1) Shelly has confided in about this
2) Likes Creepy
3) Did not get along with Shelly on the 56 timelines that Creepy had not been created
4) Goaded Shelly into punching the racists, and celebrated when it worked
I believe Bud has been looking into helping Shelly with her fundamental problem of self agency, and has discovered some major clues. This may also give Bud insight into coping with her similar issues, being a golem. All these threats among friends are a distraction. And that’s what I see happening.
Note that Tina says “You are neither human nor sphinx…”
Yeah, but that’s like saying “You’re neither Elf NOR Human”… to a D&D HALF-ELF…
it’s Technically correct because it implies Shelly is not FULL Human OR a FULL Sphinx…. of which she is neither, or Both depending on your viewpoint. Remember, the SPHINXES in the Time-Forest couldn’t pigeon-hole her into a category either!
Hurm. If I understand this correctly, as a half breed(and yes, I am aware of how loaded that term is) Shelly has no legal standing as far the demons are concerned. She is efectively a non person, and therefore open to being treated as they see fit. As a Commanche, she’s had to deal with crap from ordinary humans. Now she has to deal with similar crap from the supernatural side. Beyond the current crisis, this has some ugly implications.
Could be the problem. Perhaps demons have already moved in and are having their way with her.
ruh-roh!
What the hell is going on now ?
Has Shelly lost her freaking mind ? She never before gave a rats ass about the people she knocked out, why now all of a sudden ?
Far as we know, she didn’t kill those guys, so what is she so afraid of now ?
She’s afraid that she easily could kill the next person who crosses her… without knowing that it’s going to happen, and without being able to stop it when it does.
Shelly knows she’s been a bully… but she doesn’t see herself as a killer, and certainly doesn’t want to become a killer who kills robotically and without conscious control.
Until she understands what’s happening to her… her physical change when with Justin, and her striking out on “autopilot”… she’s going to be scared.
Aside from what Dave said, keep in mind Shelly’s expressed fears of her strength in the past (Bud almost breaking Shelly’s arm incident) and has always struggled with self doubt (going back to the early days with the boiler room).
Shelly’s showing that, despite 80k years as a sphinx in an alternate world, she still has these same fears, and the increase in power (due to her sphinx-ing) has only enhanced them.
All very true from you two, but seeing that racism is probably as insulting as you can be towards other humans, she has shown, probably subconciously, amazing restraint in not using her full power.
It might seem far-fetched, but one could argue that the full extent of her power only becomes appearant in really threatening situations.
Define “really threatening situations”… 😛
Ummm … demon barista threatening to do Bad Things to you?
Yes yes. 😛 I was just trying to point out that there doesn’t need to be a real threat for Shelly to go sphinx-y.
I’d question that. Racism is common, and unimaginative. There’s plenty of other ways to be far more offensive to your fellow man. If your or I reverted to punching every racist that came our way, we’d be sitting in jail while Racist-Joe continued being, well, racist.
Now, for SHELLY specifically, I agree she is showing more restraint than she gives herself credit, considering she not only has minimal control of her newfound strength, but also alcohol and Bud egging her onward.
But I doubt the racist jibes really mattered to Shelly much. It’s her current emotional state (Officer TB and readjusting to life woes), several drinks, a drunk Bud, and sphinx-rage (if Phix is any indication, they are a quick-to-anger race).
The racist stooges just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. They’re nothing more than a mirror in the women’s bathroom.
Shelly is facing her version of the Man of Steel,
Woman of Kleenex problem. She’s just recently back from having spent 80K years as a gigantic, powerful being in her Sphinx form. Now that she’s back in her body, she’s discovered her superb vision, ability to transform, and now lightning speed ON TOP OF her formerly strong but now super strength! Rightly so, she is very concerned about her abilities and the chance of harming others.
As for Tina — it’s the Alladin Genie problem: PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS, Itty-bitty living space! As the demons are unconstrained by “Law,” who knows what they could do? Nudge was in control by usurping the Superego position. What if Tina’s Id gets turned loose?
Ick!
Shelly’s going through the difficult adjustment common to new superheros: All of a sudden they’ve got powers far beyond those of mortal man. And it scares them, what they can do, and MIGHT do. Ben Grimm, when he wasn’t angsting over being the Thing, would be distressed over how he lived in a world of tissue paper, where he could go through walls and people with equal ease…
Yup (to you and all those above, on this point).
Now, there are those who acquire superpowers, and do not go through the sort of angst and self-limit-setting process you’ve described. Rather, they just revel in their powers, regardless of the collateral damage which ensues. They don’t care to be responsible.
We mostly call these folks “the bad guys.”
At best, they’re “chaotic neutral” and you sorta have to treat them the way you’d treat tornados, hurricanes, and wild animals… with cautious respect and plenty of distance.
Shelly… well, she’s got plenty of Chaotic in her character makeup (don’t know about her facial makeup… does she even use any?)… I think she’d prefer to be a Lawful Good but has always had a struggle on both points.
What if Tina’s Id gets turned loose?
Well if we hear Tina start referring to herself as Herman and Lily, we’ll know that this has happened and that bad things are about to ensue.
(drops small change into the Pun Jar)
“PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS, itty-bitty living space!”
Earned a true LOL 😀
“Neither human nor sphinx”
Just the kind of comforting thing Shelly needed to hear, to help her calm down with the assurance that she’s not entirely out alone in the unknown in facing her situation.
NOT.
Well, there was that one warning to M not to talk to Shelly… 😉
Stop. Catastrophizing. Shelly. It’s gotten OLD and annoying.
Off topic… Do the letters that make the face of your avatar spell anything in particular? Or is it just letters making a face? 🙂
The letters are from my first and last name. 🙂
Yay! Tina’s been getting the shaft lately, between Phix and Bud bullying her. Nice to see her getting a chance to stand up again.
You’d think Bud’s “I could break your arm with zero effort” lesson would have taught Shelly she’s small potatoes compared to the other supernaturals. Or Monica’s free skydiving lesson. But, considering how dense and self-doubting Shelly’s known to be, this is rather normal for her.
In fact, if anything, this little arc is confirming that, despite spending 80k years as a sphinx in an alternate reality, Shelly is still Shelly. Is she reverting to her former self now that she’s in the wapsi-world in her human body again? Or did Shelly never quite develop mentally as much as she thought she did?
Tina’s return from victim-land (admitted, one of my 2 faves, alongside Brandi) and re-examination of Shelly’s current character have rekindled my interest in this subplot (which, admittedly, I was doubting last Thursday).
Is this the real reason why Tina wanted Monica to leave.
She could see this happening?
Possible. Or Tina’s being typical Tina, telling Monica to do one thing knowing full well Monica can’t help but do the opposite.
Tina uses an “indirect trigger” i.e. Creating a situation where she can legitimately help Shelly by showing her that there are entities that can stop her, so, however convoluted it may seem in the first place, Shelly knows there are people around her that care enough , and are capable enough to stop her in her tracks when stuff goes haywire.
And, on a side-note, time doesn’t actually mean anything to a demon (collective),so, Shelly’s speed won’t help her at all.
Basically what Tina does is being a strict mom to a Shelly that longs, craves for someone of authority to define borders for her. Something kids, having a hard time defining their own borders and limits, also tend to do.
It sounds a bit complex, but remembering some classes in Pedagogics, the tutor also mentioned that kids actually want and need borders, to function properly.
Same for Shellinx here. She’s afraid she cannot hold herself back, so Tina provides her, in her own inmitable way, with these borders and limits, by triggering this situation by some smart manipulation of Monica.
Tina’s a psychologist, or at least she was, and it seems that some of her former self is ingrained in the demon-collective too.
Blink blink…
Tina has eyeballs today. That is creeping me out.
I think the somewhat normal pupils are a sign that she is focusing a power at this moment.
Nah, they’re still spirally, just a tighter spiral than normal.
Yeah, she rather looks wound tight.
hsssss
Ah, one of so many reasons I love Tina. Shellys situation is completely understandable, even though she’s surrounded by super powered people some of whom are way stronger than she is, she still has the “Superman problem” i.e. everyone is made of cardboard. Shelly may not be the strongest of the bunch, but she could still accidently rip Mon in half and I’m pretty sure that’d be a bad day for her.
Shelly, you *idiot!* You just threatened to tear your *best friend’s face off!!*
Well, it’s not exactly the first time Shelly seriously insults/peeves one of her friends, especially Monica.
She also made Bud cry, p’d off Brandi, p’d off Jin, scared Alan on, and on, and on..
Shelly is a seriously flawed character. And thusly so relatable (to me, at least)
Tact isn’t her strong point, as is thinking about long-term consequences of her hot-headed actions.
She’s had a bad habit of speaking before thinking about how she could hurt people (think back to that time in the Cerberus Club with Jacqui when she lashed out at Jin…I’m too tired to search the archives more today :P). Now she’s worried about how acting without forethought could hurt people…and what does she do? She acts and speaks without thinking about the harm she could do (or make others think she would do). *shakes head* Poor Shelly. All that time in the Time Forest and she still regresses.
Sheesh “ scared Owen… ” of course..
Well they were drawn off the same model, sort of.
I agree it was stupid of her, but no more so that Monica’s “free sky-diving lesson” (yeah, I’ll never let that one go).
They all need to quit using their powers to dominate over each other.
Perhaps…but it kind of reminds me of The Incredibles…when the family is having dinner and the kids start fighting. They all used their powers on each other. *shrugs* Maybe that’s just the way super-powered people behave. It’s not likely that a group of such people wouldn’t use their powers to get the upper hand or prove a point.
I think it shows a measure of their humanity that they feel the need to use their “inhuman” powers that way. Only a very wise and rational being would be likely to avoid resorting to extremes to prove a point. 🙂
In my way of thinking their “powers” are an integral part of them. How do you turn your brains off, or your athletic ability? It is why Monica avoided the bullets, because the poiting is part of her and just like you automatically pull your hand off of a hot burner, these powers bypass the conscious nervous system and run on the autonomic nervous system. They may use them consciously like you can control your breathing, but it also runs by itself. You guys are now thinking about your breathing by the way. 🙂
I am not so sure Tina isn’t bluffing. She was sure as heck scared of Shelly when she came back.
I think Tina is refering to her power to make people do what she says. The laws (enforced by the sphinxes) are that she cannot use her power to kill people, but Shelly is no longer ‘people’.
Or maybe she is channeling Nudge, which seems to often be the case since they were separated, and is tricking Shelly into thinking in another direction.
Notice the last sentence — “You will not hurt Monica.” That is a command, not polite conversation. Shelly may be getting a taste of demon power.
Also, where is Shelly’s little companion? Surely she would want to get a word in.
Sounds more like a statement of fact to me – even if you try, you won’t hurt Monica, for i, SUper Tine, shall stop you.
I expect that’s a typo, but typo or intentional, it’s an awesome reference to Vinge’s Tines from A Fire Uoon the Deep, The Blabber, and “The Children of the Sky”. The tines are collective creatures composed of cooperating individuals. They differ from Tina in that the cooperating individuals are not really coherent intelligent entities, but are quite similar in that they *do* sort of contribute their specialties to the whole.
i forgot, see http://wapsisquare.com/comic/followed-through/
It’s interesting to look at the the next page from that link. Tina can offer Shelly a lot of empathy.
Monica should have come back with, “And I could poit you into a wall, bitch!” Does Monica’s manifestation of her poiting that allows her to have bullets graze off her apply also to fists?
This really makes me want the girls to form a super team! The interesting incarnations of the Avengers, Justice League, etc. were the ones that had problems amongst the members – like when Batman knocked out Guy Gardner with one punch cuz GG was being a jerk.
Super team! Super team! Super team!
If I ever get to go to a con where Paul is, everyone behind me in line is going to have to wait a while so I can get a sketch of the supernatural cast as a super team. 🙂
Tina: “You may be able to move quickly, but I don’t have to move to stop you.” (emphasis mine)
…ahem. Oh my. What could Tina mean by that? 😐
Maybe Tina is capable -through some demon magic- to switch-off Shelly’s motory control? Make her flop-down ,instantly paralysed?
She’s already done it by saying it. “You will not hurt Monica.” Demons’ words have influence.
Interesting that demon law seems to exclusionary rather than inclusionary (i.e. Shelly is neither human or sphinx -not- Shelly is both human and sphinx + conscience elemental). This could a very exploitable flaw, especially since demons are not their own judges here.
Also note that Shelly has crushed demons into another state of existence, when put under stress at a very young age. Careful Tina. We already know that sometimes you shouldn’t say controlling things around Shelly.
Then again, maybe that’s what the demons are after: If they’re forcibly combined, they become a singular person.
Instead of The Collective That Calls Itself Tina, you’d end up with just plain Tina.
I spent three days trying to decide if I should go with Bud or Tina in my name. I figured I had decided but Paul keeps going on with things like this and it just keeps me in a perpetual state of “did I choose wisely”?
Oh yes, THIS is going to help Monica’s trust / fear of betrayal issues. “My friend, who’s already stuck a knife in my brain, is now threatening to rip my jaw off. I need different friends.” 🙁
Tinas not moving, also notice her ‘pupils’ are getting smaller because she is “LOCKING PHASERS” asitwere, and then she’ll burn a table in half – down the middle right in front of Shelly.
Whoa. Shelly just crossed a line – apparently she still has a lot to learn about what she is, and what she can and can’t do.
New Tina confronts New Shelly. Give me a New Coke and a place to watch.
Will the Old confusion corner do?
*Hands K a New Coke*
ewwww
What? I drink tea, but I can hand off a carbonated beverage as well as the next girl…
<3 Tina! <3
I love this strip! Started at the beginning a few days ago and am now in early 2007. Love the characters and the story. Thank you!
with monica’s logic, I could smack down the next bitch who start’s yelping about how much of an oppressor I am….RIGHT????
Of course, and therein lies the problem when each of us feels the right to beat upon others for the words they speak.
Wait! Does the law protect golems from the Demon collective who are Tina?
They may not need to be protected by law. It’s entirely possible that a demon’s Jedi Mind Tricks won’t work on golems. We know that the golems can have their programming altered or invoked by a glyph speaker, but whether their mental mechanisms are still “human enough” to be affected by a demon’s powers hasn’t ever (I think) been made clear.
Consider the fact that during the Calendar Machine crunchdown, Jin’s “Queen” Doubt demon was confronting Bud, would have had plenty of opportunity to try to compel her, and didn’t do so, even when she was losing. If she’d been able to compel Bud, she could have said something as simple as “Bud – sit down, shut up, and do not attempt to interfere”, and she’d have won.
Monica’s Doubt was able to emotionally manipulate Jin back when Bud poited her (Doubt) into her (Jin); but when Jin decided she’d had enough there was nothing Doubt could do to stop her. So I would assume the GGG can’t be compelled to do anything by a demon, although a clever one might be able to have influence.
Whaoh – you tell ‘er, Tina!
You might want to keep in mind that Monica is herself an alpha female, that she has already smacked down Tina and Shelly and Nudge, in one confrontation.
Monica just might surprise the hell out of the both of them.
Whoa…. I did not expect that out of Tina. That’s like getting attacked by a duck. Wow. Go You, girlfriend.
Just had a scary thought.
Tina’s command “You will not hurt Monica” (assuming that it is in fact a demonic compulsion command) was narrowly worded. Tina didn’t say “You will not hurt anyone in my cafe” or anything like that.
Tina could be at risk herself right now! Shelly could conceivably decide to turn Tina into a gruesome lesson in internal anatomy (either via a wall-crushing sucker punch, or by going sphinx and chowing down) before Tina could say anything more. I wonder whether Tina thought of that, before she stepped in and spoke.
I doubt Shelly will do anything like that… she doesn’t want to be acting dangerously. However, whatever within her is “pulling her strings” might just take violent exception to the idea of Tina controlling her, and decide to eliminate that particular problem at its source.
excuse me, but if a guy had smacked women like she did those guys…FELONY!
Is it wrong to find Tina incredibly sexy when she’s angry?
only if you’re medical isn’t paid
I think Tina and Bud are both incredibly sexy almost all the time.