Keep in mind all 3 GGs have first hand experience and memories of when they were will-less golem guardians and executioners for whoever controlled them at that moment.
They are no strangers to gore and violence, and no doubt that stings Bud all the more!
Yep, pissed is the come-down from blind utter fear for someone else’s life: “You do something to scare me like that again and I’ll kill you myself!” kind of thing.
In another forum, someone was saying that the most selfish and inconsiderate thing he’d heard of was a man deciding to get a sex change operation without consulting his wife.
I said “Not even nearly. Suicide.”
(Earlier this year i got call from my ex-wife telling me that one of our friends had finally managed to kill herself.
I understand that last point. Suicide is selfish, but what Jin has had to go through isn’t exactly a typical problem for a person.
Humans are not meant to live forever. And especially if the immortality is forced on you, it will drive you crazy.
I understand Jin wanting to die. I wouldn’t want to live forever. But on the other hand, Bub’s anger is totally justified (at both Jin and May).
ChrisHerself – Me neither. Actually, I am suicidal. I committed suicide when I was a teenager. I (think I) underestimated how good my liver was at purging toxins though – probably a side effect of being an ACOA over several generations…
Silly Bud. Everyone knows that you can remove blood stains with coke.
And on to subjects that aren’t just missing the point, Jin looks like she could convincingly say that she got hit by a truck. That might have been what they told the doctors.
Ouch, I feel for you. Last time I broke a tooth (molar) I had to get a cap put on. That was the pits and I tend to hate going to the dentist anyway. Hope you didnt have too much pain and trouble taking care of it.
Bud doesn’t understand
Maybe only phix might as she was outside the timeframe during the calender reset but Bud only has one timeframe memory.
I guess … Brandi was the one when they wanted mommy hugs and comfort. Bud was the one who kicked their butt when they did something dumb.
It did need to be addressed though and addressed now so Bud is right at having a go at her. It’s all out in the open now instead of festering inside.
I’m glad she only did it as she didn’t think it would last. Means she will be happy to be with Alan for a human life 🙂 yay!!
Shelly would also get it. After all she spent the first 20 some odd years a s a normal human and then spent over 80,000 years in the time forest with CG and occasional visits from Phix. Oh yea almost forgot, the 56 odd versions of herself that she had to deal with. (I’m still not sure if all of them died, were killed or just left.)
Yes, that’s still up in the air. What did happen to all the other Shellys? Were they unable to return and they died naturally. Did Shelinx or other sphinxes kill them? Did they do the vision quest too and developed a companion to go with them? Perhaps not since there is probably only one Nudge and one Phix. Then there was the wall-o-skulls scene, indicating maybe they died. OTOH, were the others human-sphinx hybrids as well and developed into sphinxes who just went their own way?
Ooh I have just had a thought (which was prolly discussed by someone else at the time and I have forgotten it or missed it completly)
Creepy kept Shelly safe from the other sphinx because Shellinx told Nudge to lead her astray and therefore create her.
We don’t know if Creepy existed before in any of the other timelines *but* from what I got from Nudge being so happy – this was the first time they did it.
Maybe we have to ask Phix about that one. I think she spent most of the time reading and visiting Shelly. BTW am I the only one to wonder if Phix is related to Shelly in some way? An Ancestor maybe?
Sphinx’s being mostly cat, sleeping 98% of the time is a viable situation. I’m surprised they don’t find Phix laid out in a sunbeam in the Library more often…
Lesee–a sphinx is part cat, part eagle, and part woman. The cats sleeps 90% of the time, eagle sleeps no more than 50%, and woman sleep about 33%, more or less. Average of these is a bit under 60%
I’m reminded of a section of Barry Hughart’s Bridge of Birds:
A peaceful smile spread across his gentle face. “I am so happy,” he whispered. “Now my ancestors will be proud of me, and they will not be ashamed to greet me when I get to Hell. Perhaps I may even be allowed to see Bright Star again. Do not weep for me, dear boy. It is no tragedy to return to the Great Wheel, and I have grown so weary of this life.”
His eyes closed and his breath grew faint. I leaned down and put my ear close to his lips to hear his last words.
“Immortality is only for the gods,” he whispered. “I wonder how they can stand it.”
If you haven’t ever encountered this novel, I most strongly recommend it.
Sounds like my Mom actually, “Oh, so you get to die and stop worrying about things, but I will have to convince the police that you killed yourself and not the blood splattered old woman sitting next to a headless corpse. Way to leave me holding the bag you putz”.
Way to show your oldest friend and closest companion a little compassion there Bud. Not that I don’t understand the emotion involved, I had a friend that drank herself to death.
Have to agree, especially since (I think) the way it breaks down means Jin was still around for some time before the other two GGs, so I can understand Jin’s stance even if I wouldn’t agree with it nor want her to do herself in.
Jin also remembers all of the resets (so she remembers all 8o,000 years), Bud and Brandy have no memory of it; except for what they read in Brandy’s book that is.
Throughout this timeline (let alone past ones), we’ve seen that when one cuttles Jin like May is doing here, Jin just ignores or twists the situation to her means (such as with Brandi in the past). But, when one stands up to Jin and throws her ‘stuff’ back in her face, Jin responds and takes responsibility for the situation (such as with Bud in the past).
That’s the whole reason they put Bud on this little ‘crusade’ to begin with. Unlike Brandi, Jin, Monica, or the rest, Bud tends to be very direct, both in word and action. She definitely needs to be the counterbalance to May here, who’s still a bit off her rocker (and possibly still drunk/hungover).
I don’t think the knife incident counts. Jin was trying to freak out Alan (for stupid reasons, yes); she knew that a piece of steel wasn’t going to do anything to her any more than electricity or fire. She was only emotionally vulnerable.
You can kick and give support within minutes or seconds of each type of reaction. My friends and I call it “Love with a 2×4″…and it’s much more effective on any of us than too much coddling. 🙂
You seem to be missing out on one important point in Bud’s favor here, She is just as freaked and scared by what happened in the house and is still riding the adrenal-coaster from it. I understand it because I went through it a couple of decades ago with a friend.
Ari, Maark30: very true.. and some others here need to realize their attitudes have been badly affected by their bad experience or lack of it, so only believing the twisted view of the papers..
and do remember guys this is *fiction* – you are behaving like those who campaigned to release a person from prison, forgetting he was an *actor* playing that part in a popular TV series… 🙁
Paula made a similar comment, but this is just the only way Jin ever acknowledges her situations.
To date, the only times we’ve seen Jin ever take things seriously, both in her social life and in the various crusades, is when someone gets in her face and calls Jin on her behavior. Primarily, this seems to have been Bud’s role throughout the eons Jin’s existed, though we’ve also seen Jin stop and register situations when harshly confronted by Monica, Shelly, and Allan too.
On the contrast, when someone pampers or shows sympathy to Jin’s plights, Jin twists it into making herself the victim and shirking off any/all responsibility for what occurred (her fault or not). We’ve seen her do this in the past with Monica and Tepoz, and it seems hinted she’s done so with Brandi and alternate-Shelly’s in the past.
Granted, Bud is naturally very direct and more ‘angry’ than most situations require, but I wager she actually is helping more than May here. If Bud just silences herself or leaves Jin with May, all Jin is going to do is abuse the attention May pays her until she grows tired of it. It’s just a quirk to Jin’s personality.
EXACTLY. Anger is a secondary emotion usually brought on by fear or sadness. Anger is the result of covering up a primary emotion in order to feel less vulnerable.
Spider’s character (actually, more than one has said this) specifically said always.
I don’t know whether it’s strictly true, but I think it’s a very good first-order approximation… at least, for most sentient beings. Anger is an aggression, intended to cause something or prevent something… and in most cases (I think) the thing-to-be-prevented is something that we fear to have occur.
There are, I imagine, some marginal cases… e.g. people or animals whose “anger circuitry” is triggered almost at random due to biological problems, and who strike out “for no reason”. Whether this is “anger”, or “rage”, or just “violence” is hard to tell… from the outside, and from the effects, there may not be a difference to distinguish.
I think there might be a hint of envy on bud’s part. Jin now has a chance to die, Bud does not, and has to feel somewhat betrayed, even though the transformation also fixed Jin’s time shift…
…or has it? All we know is that Jin is no longer indestructible…but are we certain her psychological troubles are over? After all, it was Monica whom Jin went to for advice on handling this problem, and Monica has had little to do with this particular fix. Jin also wanted Tina involved, and knew she kept a diary from her time as a psychiatrist…I’m still fairly certain that information will have some bearing on her well being.
I begin to wonder if mommy dearest was the last person/being to whom Jin wanted to turn for help. Her screwups caused all the problems in the first place. Also, it seems May was doing nothing to even try to help her daughter. She would still be enjoying her pitchers of liquid cheer and gardening had Bud not shown up with the key. She should have been scouring the earth for it (or something to help) herself, not to mention going through the Bibliothiki.
It just goes to show, despite good intentions in this case, mothers will mess you up something fierce.
Yes, it is not lost on me that Jin initially turned to Monica instead of her mother. Her excuse at the time was that she knew Monica was real (and therefore trustworthy), but there was some mistrust of May inherent in that, both because May had already tried the calendar machine solution and failed and because she was still freaking out about the fact that May had returned and perhaps wasn’t ready to believe it fully.
But also, after aeons in the demon world, May took off the day after her reunion with Jin to “explore”, rather than spending time with her daughter.
maybe she went to monica because monica wouldn’t blow the planet up in a cure for jin.
I imagine if may was told she would need to kill everyone on the planet to cure Jin – she would do so……
I think there’s a good chance no one in the strip really understands Jin’s motivation here. May wanted to provide her daughter with a “better quality of life.” Bud wanted to save her. From her own perspective, I think Jin didn’t want a better quality of life. She wanted no life. Is it possible that she’s almost infinitely weary? That hope is something she gave up on millennia ago? That the pain of continued existence could only be ended, not ameliorated? That, in short, there’s no waking up from a bad experience into a better morning? In her mind, the morning wasn’t ever going to come, and the most prudent thing to do was to keep the long horror of her life from going on anymore. She says, “I’ve existed so long…” And now, because of Bud’s action, the pain continues. No wonder she’s so, so sorry.
This new arc becomes something very poignant, very human. Jin’s erratic, sometimes mischievous actions in the past were perhaps the result of some of the madness leaking out. Now her actions are going to be under close scrutiny. Is she going to try to kill herself again? Can she be rehabilitated? Is joy to be found in her life? If she’s mortal, does she have a human lifespan, or something different, though still mortal?
Oooo, thank you, Paul. You’ve taken us on a long, strange trip so far – and it’s now getting closer to home and stranger yet (at the same time) all at once.
Jin’s attempt to take her life seems to be based entirely on her fear that her current mortal condition wasn’t going to last and that she would revert back to her indestructable state, that there was a finite window to end her existance. She acted on impulse, which is normal for her, since the last 80,000 years of her life has been about trying to hit an incredibly elusive target of opportunity.
She has also told Allan that she wants to grow old together with him. I think that once she’s convinced her mortality is permanant, she’ll try and do just that.
And I don’t blame Bud. Those old bigbore muzzle loaders do messy things to the human body. A lot of the amputations during the Civil War were because a .58 caliber musket ball obliterated the bone of the limb it passed through. The prospect of seeing the contents of my friend’s skull splattered on the wall would horrify me, and fear and leads to anger, and anger leads to lots of yelling at my friend who is apparently a moron.
I wouldn’t be angry. I’ve walked in those shoes. I’d be like “what the heck” more curious as to why than angry. Everyone talks about suicide as if it’s a selfish act. It’s not. Relieving your own pain is about as selfish as taking a Tylenol. And suicide is no different. It’s just a different type of pill. However, the methods of relief per type of pain may not be the sanest due to the amount of mental stress on the person in that particular type of intense pain. Begging for relief(suicide or kill me) may, to that person, seem like the only alternative at the time, and they may not be clear headed enough to even think about other methods of relief. That being said, no one can truly know they type or amount of pain another person is in, and should not be so quick to judge or be pious about it until they experience it for themselves. Which I hope they never do.
i think people think suicide is selfish as it only ‘helps’ the person who kills themself and no one else and it seems as though the suicider is only considering the affects on themselves and no one else.
the ironic thing is – i think suicides have a tendancy to feel as though the world and their loved ones would be better off without them and is by NOT being selfish they actually kill themselves.
It feels to me as if there’s a continuum here – lumping all “suicide” together into a single selfishness-category seems to oversimplify matters.
At one end of the spectrum, one might find those who choose voluntary termination of their life in the face of a painful terminal illness (e.g. physician-assisted suicide, in some states). I gather that many people who make this (difficult!) choice, do so in what seems to be a very thoughtful manner… discussing it with their families and life partners, settling their affairs responsibly, leaving as few “loose ends” behind themselves as possible, etc. The external results aren’t all that different than what would likely have happened within a few weeks or months if they chose to die “naturally”, other than their not having to live through those weeks or months of horrible pain. According to many this is still “suicide”, and I suppose it does meet the strict definition of the word… but I can’t see this as at all selfish.
Then, there are those who kill themselves quietly, but without discussing it with anyone… often leaving a lot of emotional pain behind them in the hearts of their loved ones. That seems to be where Jin is sitting, at the moment. Selfish? I honestly don’t know how to answer that… lots of gray here!
Some choose a more violent suicide (e.g. “suicide by cop”, or throwing themselves under a train), an act which forcibly and involuntarily enrolls someone else in the role of their “executioner”. This, I do personally view as selfish, as they force pain upon an innocent in order to relieve their own.
At the far end of the spectrum, are the horrid cases where somebody murders one or more other people (often estranged family or other relations) and then kills themselves. Absolutely selfish, IMO (my wife’s comment on hearing about one of these is “Why didn’t they kill themselves first?“).
Oh, man. I feel so bad for Jin when she looks like that.
… Bud’s got a point though… Poor girl is so pissed… XD
Keep in mind all 3 GGs have first hand experience and memories of when they were will-less golem guardians and executioners for whoever controlled them at that moment.
They are no strangers to gore and violence, and no doubt that stings Bud all the more!
Also, Bud and Brandi remember Jin splattering them with other people’s innards. She had better reason then, too.
Yep, pissed is the come-down from blind utter fear for someone else’s life: “You do something to scare me like that again and I’ll kill you myself!” kind of thing.
In another forum, someone was saying that the most selfish and inconsiderate thing he’d heard of was a man deciding to get a sex change operation without consulting his wife.
I said “Not even nearly. Suicide.”
(Earlier this year i got call from my ex-wife telling me that one of our friends had finally managed to kill herself.
(My first reaction was anger.)
Most therapists would tell you, “Suicide is a very permanent solution to a temporary problem.”
I wonder what they would say to Jin.
It is one of the most selfish things one can do, yes, but it’s hard to get truly angry with a suicidal person if you’ve walked a mile in those shoes.
Unfortunately I wouldn’t wish that mile on anyone.
I understand that last point. Suicide is selfish, but what Jin has had to go through isn’t exactly a typical problem for a person.
Humans are not meant to live forever. And especially if the immortality is forced on you, it will drive you crazy.
I understand Jin wanting to die. I wouldn’t want to live forever. But on the other hand, Bub’s anger is totally justified (at both Jin and May).
ChrisHerself – Me neither. Actually, I am suicidal. I committed suicide when I was a teenager. I (think I) underestimated how good my liver was at purging toxins though – probably a side effect of being an ACOA over several generations…
Can’t says that I blame Bud for feeling the way she does. I’m sure she’s not thrilled with the prospect of having to pull suicide watch on Jin.
Silly Bud. Everyone knows that you can remove blood stains with coke.
And on to subjects that aren’t just missing the point, Jin looks like she could convincingly say that she got hit by a truck. That might have been what they told the doctors.
Fell down a flight of steps and hit the tile floor face first would also fit the injuries and damage.
The fact that you specified a tile floor suggests that you may have done this before.
Nah, I just know far too many people in emergency services. It teaches you all sorts of useless info, unless you are a writer or a psychopath that is.
About a month ago, i fell out of bed and broke off a tooth on the corner of the nightstand…
Stop that; only James Nicoll is supposed to do things like that.
Sorry to hear that – hope your Dentist was able to do something .D..
It was right next to one that had lost a filling and broken – i now have a two-tooth gap there.
I may be losing other teeth, too – i am paying the price for lax oral hygiene.
And our insurance covers $1000/year for dental, and we have to pay 20% the whole way.
Ouch, I feel for you. Last time I broke a tooth (molar) I had to get a cap put on. That was the pits and I tend to hate going to the dentist anyway. Hope you didnt have too much pain and trouble taking care of it.
Bud doesn’t understand
Maybe only phix might as she was outside the timeframe during the calender reset but Bud only has one timeframe memory.
I guess … Brandi was the one when they wanted mommy hugs and comfort. Bud was the one who kicked their butt when they did something dumb.
It did need to be addressed though and addressed now so Bud is right at having a go at her. It’s all out in the open now instead of festering inside.
I’m glad she only did it as she didn’t think it would last. Means she will be happy to be with Alan for a human life 🙂 yay!!
actually maybe even phix wouldn’t understand as she is a sphinx and already immortal.
Never met any but i suspect immortals can cope with immortality a lot better than humans who suddenly break their time frame and become immortal.
(a lot of fantasy has this as fact btw 😛 Jack Harkness, Connan McCleod, errr…cannot think of anyone else but you get my drift 😛 )
*connor macleod
sorry bout that…
Shelly would also get it. After all she spent the first 20 some odd years a s a normal human and then spent over 80,000 years in the time forest with CG and occasional visits from Phix. Oh yea almost forgot, the 56 odd versions of herself that she had to deal with. (I’m still not sure if all of them died, were killed or just left.)
Yes, that’s still up in the air. What did happen to all the other Shellys? Were they unable to return and they died naturally. Did Shelinx or other sphinxes kill them? Did they do the vision quest too and developed a companion to go with them? Perhaps not since there is probably only one Nudge and one Phix. Then there was the wall-o-skulls scene, indicating maybe they died. OTOH, were the others human-sphinx hybrids as well and developed into sphinxes who just went their own way?
Ooh I have just had a thought (which was prolly discussed by someone else at the time and I have forgotten it or missed it completly)
Creepy kept Shelly safe from the other sphinx because Shellinx told Nudge to lead her astray and therefore create her.
We don’t know if Creepy existed before in any of the other timelines *but* from what I got from Nudge being so happy – this was the first time they did it.
Maybe the other sphinx killed the other Shellys.
Ugh and yes you said it like 20seconds before me.
I need to read better -.-
sorry about that 🙁
doh!
How could I forget shelly?
You are completly correct 😀
Shelly would also understand 🙂
Maybe many immortals cope with the eons by sleeping 98% of the time away. A well rested sphinx is a happy sphinx.
Maybe we have to ask Phix about that one. I think she spent most of the time reading and visiting Shelly. BTW am I the only one to wonder if Phix is related to Shelly in some way? An Ancestor maybe?
Sphinx’s being mostly cat, sleeping 98% of the time is a viable situation. I’m surprised they don’t find Phix laid out in a sunbeam in the Library more often…
Lesee–a sphinx is part cat, part eagle, and part woman. The cats sleeps 90% of the time, eagle sleeps no more than 50%, and woman sleep about 33%, more or less. Average of these is a bit under 60%
I think you also have to consider how much of each animal is present and use the percentages on that basis, then average the percentages.
You forgot Wowbagger the Infinitly Prolonged.
terry pratchet?
I’m still waiting on my insult from him.
He showed up in the middle of a chemistry exam and called me irresponsible. Second weirdest day that week.
what was the first?
Casey and Paula- when he called ahead to say he was coming, the day after.
Grins and runs.
I’m reminded of a section of Barry Hughart’s Bridge of Birds:
Bud sounds like a mom.
“just who did you expect to clean this young lady?”
Sounds like my Mom actually, “Oh, so you get to die and stop worrying about things, but I will have to convince the police that you killed yourself and not the blood splattered old woman sitting next to a headless corpse. Way to leave me holding the bag you putz”.
Way to show your oldest friend and closest companion a little compassion there Bud. Not that I don’t understand the emotion involved, I had a friend that drank herself to death.
Have to agree, especially since (I think) the way it breaks down means Jin was still around for some time before the other two GGs, so I can understand Jin’s stance even if I wouldn’t agree with it nor want her to do herself in.
Jin also remembers all of the resets (so she remembers all 8o,000 years), Bud and Brandy have no memory of it; except for what they read in Brandy’s book that is.
sorry, but many people do not have that much emotional control…
Also, remember this is Jin we’re talking about.
Throughout this timeline (let alone past ones), we’ve seen that when one cuttles Jin like May is doing here, Jin just ignores or twists the situation to her means (such as with Brandi in the past). But, when one stands up to Jin and throws her ‘stuff’ back in her face, Jin responds and takes responsibility for the situation (such as with Bud in the past).
That’s the whole reason they put Bud on this little ‘crusade’ to begin with. Unlike Brandi, Jin, Monica, or the rest, Bud tends to be very direct, both in word and action. She definitely needs to be the counterbalance to May here, who’s still a bit off her rocker (and possibly still drunk/hungover).
Guilt Tripping ‘cross the Wapsi-verse.
Guilt Tripping, it’s bad but could be worse.
It’s Live, Jin, but not as you knew it
Not as you knew it
Not as you knew it
It’s Live, Jin, but not as you knew it
isn’t that life? 😛
And yea – love ‘star trekkin’
cool song 😀
And the Pessimist said, “This can’t get any worse.”
The Optimist replied,”Why, of course it can!”
Count your blessings, Jin.
hmm
that is
very optimistic pessimism and very pessimistic optimism.
🙂
Isn’t that the definition of realism?
Ooops, I meant the definition of a Realist.
Way to be comforting and understanding Bud. Aren’t there some legless war veterans you could be kicking and prodding?
Legless war veterans aren’t her friends who just tried to kill themselves scaring the crap out of her. Poor Jin AND Bud.
Yes, but the time to chastise is after the friend has rested and healed some. Otherwise you’re just kicking them when they’re down.
She has been lied to by Jin before.
Chances are Bud just doesn’t believe she wouldn’t try it again the second their backs were turned.
Maybe it’s because she was there when Jin stabbed herself with a knife?
Huh…didn’t think about that. Excellent point.
All I know is…when someone I love tries to kill themselves it’s never too early to start telling them how idiotic that was. : \
I don’t think the knife incident counts. Jin was trying to freak out Alan (for stupid reasons, yes); she knew that a piece of steel wasn’t going to do anything to her any more than electricity or fire. She was only emotionally vulnerable.
maybe not the knife stabby in itself but the way jin was acting was freaking her out for sure.
You can kick and give support within minutes or seconds of each type of reaction. My friends and I call it “Love with a 2×4″…and it’s much more effective on any of us than too much coddling. 🙂
Julie- My family calls it a ‘clue by four’, and in moma’s hands it is deadly to stupid ideas.
You seem to be missing out on one important point in Bud’s favor here, She is just as freaked and scared by what happened in the house and is still riding the adrenal-coaster from it. I understand it because I went through it a couple of decades ago with a friend.
Ari, Maark30: very true.. and some others here need to realize their attitudes have been badly affected by their bad experience or lack of it, so only believing the twisted view of the papers..
and do remember guys this is *fiction* – you are behaving like those who campaigned to release a person from prison, forgetting he was an *actor* playing that part in a popular TV series… 🙁
free deirdre!
wait…that did actually work though. 😛
Paula made a similar comment, but this is just the only way Jin ever acknowledges her situations.
To date, the only times we’ve seen Jin ever take things seriously, both in her social life and in the various crusades, is when someone gets in her face and calls Jin on her behavior. Primarily, this seems to have been Bud’s role throughout the eons Jin’s existed, though we’ve also seen Jin stop and register situations when harshly confronted by Monica, Shelly, and Allan too.
On the contrast, when someone pampers or shows sympathy to Jin’s plights, Jin twists it into making herself the victim and shirking off any/all responsibility for what occurred (her fault or not). We’ve seen her do this in the past with Monica and Tepoz, and it seems hinted she’s done so with Brandi and alternate-Shelly’s in the past.
Granted, Bud is naturally very direct and more ‘angry’ than most situations require, but I wager she actually is helping more than May here. If Bud just silences herself or leaves Jin with May, all Jin is going to do is abuse the attention May pays her until she grows tired of it. It’s just a quirk to Jin’s personality.
One of Spider Robinson’s characters (Jake) has made the point:
.
Bud’s just had of her worst-ever scares, I think. Sounding / being angry, afterwards, is a very human reaction.
Wish there were more books from him .
EXACTLY. Anger is a secondary emotion usually brought on by fear or sadness. Anger is the result of covering up a primary emotion in order to feel less vulnerable.
everytime or just sometimes?
Spider’s character (actually, more than one has said this) specifically said always.
I don’t know whether it’s strictly true, but I think it’s a very good first-order approximation… at least, for most sentient beings. Anger is an aggression, intended to cause something or prevent something… and in most cases (I think) the thing-to-be-prevented is something that we fear to have occur.
There are, I imagine, some marginal cases… e.g. people or animals whose “anger circuitry” is triggered almost at random due to biological problems, and who strike out “for no reason”. Whether this is “anger”, or “rage”, or just “violence” is hard to tell… from the outside, and from the effects, there may not be a difference to distinguish.
Yay Bud!
Tough love!
Tough love is tough
But sometimes it is the only way.
Team Bud too? 🙂
Bud kicks @$$.
Bud is kind of beating her with a clue by four.
Shakes pun jar..D
Just putting in my 2 cents. [Clink] [Clink]
I think there might be a hint of envy on bud’s part. Jin now has a chance to die, Bud does not, and has to feel somewhat betrayed, even though the transformation also fixed Jin’s time shift…
…or has it? All we know is that Jin is no longer indestructible…but are we certain her psychological troubles are over? After all, it was Monica whom Jin went to for advice on handling this problem, and Monica has had little to do with this particular fix. Jin also wanted Tina involved, and knew she kept a diary from her time as a psychiatrist…I’m still fairly certain that information will have some bearing on her well being.
This may be merely the beginning…
I begin to wonder if mommy dearest was the last person/being to whom Jin wanted to turn for help. Her screwups caused all the problems in the first place. Also, it seems May was doing nothing to even try to help her daughter. She would still be enjoying her pitchers of liquid cheer and gardening had Bud not shown up with the key. She should have been scouring the earth for it (or something to help) herself, not to mention going through the Bibliothiki.
It just goes to show, despite good intentions in this case, mothers will mess you up something fierce.
Yikes. Not that what your saying isn’t true just….yikes.
Yes, it is not lost on me that Jin initially turned to Monica instead of her mother. Her excuse at the time was that she knew Monica was real (and therefore trustworthy), but there was some mistrust of May inherent in that, both because May had already tried the calendar machine solution and failed and because she was still freaking out about the fact that May had returned and perhaps wasn’t ready to believe it fully.
But also, after aeons in the demon world, May took off the day after her reunion with Jin to “explore”, rather than spending time with her daughter.
She made her some breakfast, but still…
maybe she went to monica because monica wouldn’t blow the planet up in a cure for jin.
I imagine if may was told she would need to kill everyone on the planet to cure Jin – she would do so……
Actually, May DID go hunting for a cure – the ‘Galactic Alternator’ dingus, but it was put aside and the Artifact was used…..
I think there’s a good chance no one in the strip really understands Jin’s motivation here. May wanted to provide her daughter with a “better quality of life.” Bud wanted to save her. From her own perspective, I think Jin didn’t want a better quality of life. She wanted no life. Is it possible that she’s almost infinitely weary? That hope is something she gave up on millennia ago? That the pain of continued existence could only be ended, not ameliorated? That, in short, there’s no waking up from a bad experience into a better morning? In her mind, the morning wasn’t ever going to come, and the most prudent thing to do was to keep the long horror of her life from going on anymore. She says, “I’ve existed so long…” And now, because of Bud’s action, the pain continues. No wonder she’s so, so sorry.
This new arc becomes something very poignant, very human. Jin’s erratic, sometimes mischievous actions in the past were perhaps the result of some of the madness leaking out. Now her actions are going to be under close scrutiny. Is she going to try to kill herself again? Can she be rehabilitated? Is joy to be found in her life? If she’s mortal, does she have a human lifespan, or something different, though still mortal?
Oooo, thank you, Paul. You’ve taken us on a long, strange trip so far – and it’s now getting closer to home and stranger yet (at the same time) all at once.
Jin’s attempt to take her life seems to be based entirely on her fear that her current mortal condition wasn’t going to last and that she would revert back to her indestructable state, that there was a finite window to end her existance. She acted on impulse, which is normal for her, since the last 80,000 years of her life has been about trying to hit an incredibly elusive target of opportunity.
She has also told Allan that she wants to grow old together with him. I think that once she’s convinced her mortality is permanant, she’ll try and do just that.
And I don’t blame Bud. Those old bigbore muzzle loaders do messy things to the human body. A lot of the amputations during the Civil War were because a .58 caliber musket ball obliterated the bone of the limb it passed through. The prospect of seeing the contents of my friend’s skull splattered on the wall would horrify me, and fear and leads to anger, and anger leads to lots of yelling at my friend who is apparently a moron.
… and anger leads to hate. And hate leads to suffering…
Don’t be so quick to dismiss hate. Hate, like fear, can be a great motivator. It also can lead to security and comfort.
Son, all that hate is goinna burn you up.
It keeps me warm.
I wouldn’t be angry. I’ve walked in those shoes. I’d be like “what the heck” more curious as to why than angry. Everyone talks about suicide as if it’s a selfish act. It’s not. Relieving your own pain is about as selfish as taking a Tylenol. And suicide is no different. It’s just a different type of pill. However, the methods of relief per type of pain may not be the sanest due to the amount of mental stress on the person in that particular type of intense pain. Begging for relief(suicide or kill me) may, to that person, seem like the only alternative at the time, and they may not be clear headed enough to even think about other methods of relief. That being said, no one can truly know they type or amount of pain another person is in, and should not be so quick to judge or be pious about it until they experience it for themselves. Which I hope they never do.
i think people think suicide is selfish as it only ‘helps’ the person who kills themself and no one else and it seems as though the suicider is only considering the affects on themselves and no one else.
the ironic thing is – i think suicides have a tendancy to feel as though the world and their loved ones would be better off without them and is by NOT being selfish they actually kill themselves.
It feels to me as if there’s a continuum here – lumping all “suicide” together into a single selfishness-category seems to oversimplify matters.
At one end of the spectrum, one might find those who choose voluntary termination of their life in the face of a painful terminal illness (e.g. physician-assisted suicide, in some states). I gather that many people who make this (difficult!) choice, do so in what seems to be a very thoughtful manner… discussing it with their families and life partners, settling their affairs responsibly, leaving as few “loose ends” behind themselves as possible, etc. The external results aren’t all that different than what would likely have happened within a few weeks or months if they chose to die “naturally”, other than their not having to live through those weeks or months of horrible pain. According to many this is still “suicide”, and I suppose it does meet the strict definition of the word… but I can’t see this as at all selfish.
Then, there are those who kill themselves quietly, but without discussing it with anyone… often leaving a lot of emotional pain behind them in the hearts of their loved ones. That seems to be where Jin is sitting, at the moment. Selfish? I honestly don’t know how to answer that… lots of gray here!
Some choose a more violent suicide (e.g. “suicide by cop”, or throwing themselves under a train), an act which forcibly and involuntarily enrolls someone else in the role of their “executioner”. This, I do personally view as selfish, as they force pain upon an innocent in order to relieve their own.
At the far end of the spectrum, are the horrid cases where somebody murders one or more other people (often estranged family or other relations) and then kills themselves. Absolutely selfish, IMO (my wife’s comment on hearing about one of these is “Why didn’t they kill themselves first?“).
This is not an area of life with simple answers.
Taking Tylenol won’t break the hearts of your friends and family or traumatize the poor person that stumbles upon your corpse.