The working theory is that when Tina, Monica, and Shelly all (nearly) died in the bus crash incident, to make sure they survived, their demons were instructed (by Jin? Nudge?) to block their souls from leaving their bodies.
Shelly and Monica were planned for, their demons warned in advance; Tina, not so much, so when it was clear she was going to die, Shelly’s demons (were told to/decided on their own so as not to be responsible for a human death) block Tina’s soul from departing also… but that’s not the proper way to go about it; Shelly’s demons have no connection to Tina’s body. Tina’s disembodied soul somehow got dragged back to Shelly’s body instead (through the metaphorical “demon entrance”) and became the catalyst to combine all Shelly’s demons (and a human soul) together into a single entity.
Conclusion: “Conscience” is not just a melded demon, but Tina (the original girl’s soul) as well.
The order-obsessed sphinxes have rules for dealing with demons (whom they hate) and rules about human souls (whom they protect) but what are they supposed to do with a half-n-half hybrid?
Like racist fanatics who honestly believed blacks were a less hairy form of monkey, and that white people were the chosen of God, made in His divine image… Connie is a mulatto child who should not even be able to exist as far as their beliefs go.
If Nudge is telling the truth here (hard to be sure without independent confirmation… she is Coyote, after all) it does make it look as if there’s another player involved, setting up whatever took place among the demons which led to M’s accident and Tina’s death.
This is feeling like it could be chessmaster Brandi at work somehow… maybe involving the “deal” she said she made (which her words impied was with something demonic or at least paranormal). It doesn’t seem directly related to anything we’ve seen her read out of the cross-the-CM-loops book she wrote, but who knows?
Or this is the hand of Phix here… she DID say that she liked how she turned out, possibly implying that she knew what was up all along, but as a surprise to Tina she was playing it straight and not telling her that she knew what was up…
As a trickster god, “truth” has no particular relationship to anything that comes out of Nudge’s mouth. Not that she seeks likes, that would be an opposition to truth; rather, the fun story axis is orthogonal to the factual reporting axis. As an example, consider Nudge saying both of these lines, possibly within minutes of each other:
“Bwahaha! Another brilliant plan comes off without a hitch!”
“Plan? I don’t make plans; I just, you know, do stuff.”
Just wanna remind everybody not to insult poor Coyote/Nudge by implying that she lies all the time, or even a lot.
One of my own traits is that I am, when I need to be, a seriously good bull**** artist. I will dance around the truth, I will avoid answering the question, I perhaps will even give half an answer then leave you to your own devices and take no credit (or blame) when, instead of asking questions, you fill in the blanks yourself with incorrect assumptions.
But every word I actually said, every concept I actually claimed … was true. Not my fault you went tearing off without making sure you had the whole answer, didn’t ask more questions, right? 😉
Not something I do all the time, and in Nudge’s case not even something I think she does intentionally, it’s just her nature. As proven by the “Heinz 57” assertion. ::snicker::
We also learned a couple more ways to avoid an answer: ask a question in return, or make an accusation or complaint. Anything to keep the other fellow on the defensive.
So will she start to show outward – or inward – traits of Tina 1.0? Seems like after 80K years, if it was gonna happen, it’d have happened by now….unless the soul has been unaware all this time.
I still don’t buy the “Daddy’s Little Princess” theory since she was going to testify against him. I’d go more with “Principled Person Who Doesn’t Like the Situation She Was Born Into”…but that’s just me. 😛
there has been a bit on tv in UK a while back…
AFAICS he prefers male id, but is part of a body-mod ‘dandy’ club… but then he could have just been trying to confuse the press!!
I would say ” whatever is, is whatever does” .. just twisted….. :/
Called it. No way a curveball like Nudge would be put into a deeper loop by Brandis 1-56. She’d have to be there by accident, or if Brandi knew she was a factor, put outside the relevant actions.
Also, I now consider it canonical that RuPaul is the returned Jesus of Nazareth within the Wapsiverse.
Your use of “curveball” is a good one. Actually, a related sports metaphor is coming up for me.
Somebody is playing one hell of a game of billiards here, with Nudge as one of the “intermediate” balls in a complex combination shot. “Tina’s soul in the side pocket, with M’s and Shelly’s souls rebounding back into play.”
Billiards, with a really complicated series of moves to set up this shot. Brandi is the logical suspect for any set-up that complicated (and, frankly, more than a bit cold-hearted) but it could be a new player from off-stage, I suppose. Whether Jin is a “shooter” or just another “ball”… I just don’t know.
Billiards, chess, and orbital mechanics (a weird mix of predictable deterministic behavior, and sheer chaos and the butterfly effect). Wow.
I’ve thought through some pretty complex stuff in my day… but if what is going on here is as involved as it now looks to me, it’s way out of my league, and I’m sorta glad. Pushing peoples’ lives around like that would be scary biscuits!
The parameters of what Brandis 1-56 had to keep from Jin and everyone native to Earth 57, including Brandi 57, are as impressive as we were initially led to believe. I had been whining about how Brandi 57 was in the dark about too many factors to be believable, but actually it stands every chance of pulling together perfectly.
As for Nudge. She can’t be of help in determining how the final fusion of Connie came about, but she does have two potentially important leads in that immortal brain of hers:
I think we’ve always assumed that Tina ended up in the Boiler Room as the result of Monica’s tipsy mis-poiting, but that may not be the case.
Monica has been shown poiting herself and others to/from places in the main Wapsi world, and to/from the Library. I don’t recall any other example of her (apparently) poiting people to a weird other-space like Shelly’s boiler room. Was Monica even aware of that “place”?
For that matter, I don’t think it’s ever been explained how/why Shelly’s tattoo-doorway was switched into the not-visible “lock” mode, thus trapping Tina in the boiler room.
So, possibly, Tina got into the boiler room via some other pathway (perhaps direct entry through Shelly’s tattoo?) and the door got locked behind her?
1. It has been implied, if not stated outright, that Tina did NOT die in the car “accident” in ANY of the previous loops. The accident didn’t happen. So Monica could not have been the “door” in those loops, so none of the methods they tried COULD work. In trying to make certain that the loops would continue, the demons made the one missing condition necessary to break the loops.
But, a living Tina was necessary to make it all come together, so steps had to be taken. It was a big commitment, as Nudge’s job through out the loops was to, well, nudge things into place for the next loop to get closer to what had to be.
I am amused by your assumption of RuPaul as the returned Jesus in the Wapsiverse…and I choose to second your decision that it should be considered canon. 😛
Ok, I gotta ask this.
I’ve been wondering about Nudge’s looks recently – Paul’s artwork doesn’t go into these kind of details (which is perfectly all right, it wouldn’t even look good – but I still wanna know)
Are the “spiky things” on her shoulders (and neck)simply fur, or some bony protrusions?
Also, the marks in her face – is it pigmentation or skin (horn?) formations?
Does she have fur on her face?
I can’t remember where, but I think it was addressed at one point by Paul…it might have been around the time that someone decided to make a sculpture of Nudge…
Curse my poor memory and the HUGE archive I’d have to wade through to find anything that specific!!! 🙂
‘T was me.. And I asked Paul for a pretty specific description, and he obliged. They’re boney ridges. her neck has them at the back too, running toward her spine.
The spots are something between freckles and moles.
Well, “prettyness” isn’t Nudge, but the end-result is a enjoyable, comical “oddball” character. Utterly original.
Oh, that would have been perfect if she did. I used to think that was how RuPaul transformed as a kid. “Drag Queen Power! Make-up!” And Bam! Sailor RuPaul.
… well really to RuPaul. I don’t think she was serious about him being divine (well not Jesus, anyway 😆 ). That’s obviously RuPaul’s song that she’s invoking.
Agreed. Remember, Paul jump-cut from away from the Library right after “Nudge, stop!” a few weeks ago… we still have no idea how Shelly’s actual “lesson” with Phix worked out.
This jump-cut back to the Library simply balances out that one. Some sort of weird Law of Conservation perhaps?
Given that poiting can occur when you’ve been to the place you poit to, Shelinix probably can poit because she’s a sphinx. I’ll presume this was one of the lessons from Phix, thus not available to her in the Time Forest, due to lack of practice.
Phix did (reluctantly) warn Nudge to stay out of the apos’ way, and in the reunion scene Nudge does look more terrified of Shelly being told to kill her than she was of being beat on by Tina 2.1.
So the possibility that sphinxes can kill otherwise immortal demigods is still on the table, but not yet confirmed either way.
@IS_Wolf: It means that, at the time Nudge was in real danger of being beaten to death by Shelly – when she returned from the Time Forest, she said “I’v always been a Sphinx”, and thus was vulnerable to death at Shelly’s hand prior to the Time Forest.
Phix herself does not seem to poit, but rather use an idiosyncratic method of transport of dissimilar mechanisms but comparable results.
Dang. I think I sprained my keyboard.
As best I have been able to work it out, the Library sort of extrudes itself into another location, carrying Phix with it, and then withdraws, leaving Phix. Or perhaps it could be said to overwrite local space with L-space? Works the other way around as well, as when Phix finally caught up with Nudge/Tina in the coffee shop, and pulled Tina and Monica into the Library. I cannot offhand recall any instance where Phix went from place to place in the Wapsiverse without returning to, and leaving from, the Library.
Opening a door, or the slower speed of the library extending and withdrawing, would explain the lack of noise in either case–as I think of it, the POIT! of poiting comes from the sudden presence or absence of an object displacing the air as it moves to compensate.
I suppose if you want to split fine hairs of what passes for grammar in English, it could work, but it causes what my father used to call “reader speed-bumps” – that moment when your brain goes “no, that’s not right…well, OK…if you insist…”. Of course, as a friend of mine likes to say “English does not borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, clubs them over the head, and then searches their pockets for loose grammar.”
The problem for you might have been the unnecessary comma. It causes a further separation from the “would” which is already hidden in a contraction. It didn’t bother me, though.
I’ve gotten spanked for insisting on perfect grammar; Paul has pointed out that most people, including his characters, use all sorts of verbal shorthands. So unless the grammar is so mangled that I cannot understand what is being said, I ignore it.
I may have to steal what your friend says about English, Dave11. 🙂 That may be one of the best things I’ve read ever (second to RuPaul as the returned Messiah).
That is a quote from James Nicoll, an acquaintance of mine – and it’s incomplete.
The full quote is:
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
(The above link is well worth following up, BTW.)”
The original quote is by James Nicoll, posted in 1990 at rec.arts.sf-lovers: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
Oh – and Cally Soukop’s list of “Nicoll Events” is absolutely hilarious. James is well known for leading an … eventful … life, wherein the phrase “…when I awoke in a pool of blood…” is not only not unlikely but rather mild.
FPF –
What I quoted was the version my friend uses. I wasn’t aware of the original. Of course, I could always go with another quote (not sure where this one came from either, and my google-fu is taking a break): “[English] started as a bad habit shared by Norman sailors and Saxon barmaids so they could do other things to and with each other”.
An excellent book on the topic is Anguished Engrish. I’d recommend two readings – once to laugh your ass off, once to improve your skills at our “language”.
Dave, the two forms of the quote illustrates something–either that most people don’t always use perfect grammar, or that many people don’t quote perfectly, or have perfect knowledge, or something. But it does illustrate various themes in the Wapsiverse.
The problems with that are that “Would follow” is past tense and “you would get you lost” sounds incorrect as well, as in that case, it would be “you would get yourself lost” and the fact that she’s back to talking about what she did, thus the phrase reflects off the subject “I” which “get you lost” refers to.
Sooo….. Connie is Shelly’s demons as aggregate, combined with Tina 1.0’s soul? Hmmm — Does Connie have any of Tina’s memories buried under there? If so:
— Does she still want vengeance on “daddy” and those around him?
— Will she try and rescue “mommy” from daddy and the organization holding/using her?
— Will the drug lord’s allies likewise suffer her wrath?
She’s had 80K years to brood and a whole slew of new powers to sort out, and now has some very powerful allies should she use them…
Paul has hinted at a Tina spinoff. Her crime family would have to be a big part of it.
Wapsi has always acknowledged the darkness out there, but is a classic dramatic comedy in structure. Everyone will pair off happily in the “end”, and life will be affirmed.
Tina may not be able to participate in such an ending, and that would be a notable twist, in keeping with the theme: Others’ pursuits of happiness come at a sacrifice. Tina has her own story to tell, and it’s darker than what fits in here.
I don’t think so (about the moral obligation bit). I’m thinking that “the gang” would only feel they need to fix the things that are broken…like the Calendar Machine and Crazy Jin. Tina isn’t broken so much as she’s just different.
I suppose it could be argued that being without a soul is “being broken,” but you also have to consider the growth that the demon collective is experiencing as Tina 2.1. To reintroduce Tina’s soul back into that mix would negate the “person” that the new Tina has become…not to mention what it might do to Connie…and by association to Shelly.
Agree that Connie’s Tina 1.0 component should not be required to (re-)merge with Tina 2.1’s collective. They’ve both gone their own ways.
As the Tinas are separate beings now, I’m reminded of the main character in Jack, wherein a horrendously evil man (Jack) died, became the incarnate Sin of Wrath, and made amnesiac as part of the punishment. But — now blind to his past, he’s a honest, diligent, and honorable Grim Reaper who’s never so much as started a bar fight for the hell of it.
With that in mind, merging Tina 1.0 and 2.1 may be simply a bad idea to re-acquaint their memories.
By “Tina get back her soul”, do you mean turning Tina’s soul back over to the demons that got her killed, and the aging body they’ve been plying with pizza and pastries?
Or do you mean freeing her soul from the demons she’s been alloyed* with for 10k times a human lifespan in an existence she finds occasionally pleasurable?
I’d suppose the soul would continue its journey through its doorway before wanting to return to Chubby Grumpy Tentacle House. That body is 1/20,000 her age, and it’s already falling apart.
Great thought… but Tina at this point has a “covey” 😀 of demons of her own. Connie appears to be a blend of Shelly’s demons plus (if we’re right about this), Tina’s original soul. So: I doubt Tina would care to adopt Shelly’s demons – it will be interesting to see how Tina’s soul can be returned to her, and what will be the ultimate fate of Creepy Little Girl. Great stuff…
That would be akin to splitting Tuvix back into Neelix and Tuvok, with the additional complication, that Connie and Tina 2.1 are separate entities of their own as well.
So it wouldn’t just be killing 1 to get back 2 people. But killing two to get back 1 person. Not quite sure that balances out.
Yes, people die and are revived all the time…but some people die and are revived only to be brain-dead vegetables. I would imagine that this is more akin to what happened with Tina’s body. Her soul didn’t return, so her body (still alive…or at least enough so that she can visit hospitals without creating panic) would have been vegetative if Nudge hadn’t convinced the demons to get up.
Yes…I would (if given the choice) want to have my body and soul united instead of having a living body in one corner and my soul stuck in the other…but I also would rather have my soul merged into a strange new being than actually “pass through” the doorway to leave me body vegetative. *shrugs* It’s all a matter of perspective I suppose.
Connie seem to know that when Shelly dies, she dies.
But if she is part soul, what does that mean? Everyone parts ways again?
And how did Connie know that in the first place? If fusion with a soul under these circumstances is one of the standard Demonic Rules, then her existence would not be surprise to anyone who has to follow or enforce them.
I should hasten to point out that even apos didn’t want to try and take her apart. I wouldn’t be so quick to think that was a good idea, or even possible, if they’re backing off.
I would agree that Connie was created by compressing many individual entities, but she is one entity/person now. She is mortal (in that her life will end when Shelly’s does), and she is capable of independent thought. She just seems to lack a true body. *shrugs* I’d still consider her a person.
I can see where it would be harder to call Tina 2.1 a “person.” However, she (even as a conglomerate of demons) is a unique entity with a living body and personality all her own. People could easily argue that in the Wapsiverse most people have multiple demons voicing opinions and contributing to individual actions. Monica’s just one of the few who could actually see and interact with hers. Based on this, I’d say that Tina meets enough of the definition of “person” to merit the title. 🙂
Well, I was referencing a Star Trek Voyager episode, where due to a transporter mishap the characters Tuvok and Neelix got fused into a singular being known as Tuvix.
The argument, that neither Tuvok nor Neelix would want to be merged, was used as the justification to separate them back into their component pieces.
However, this also meant the death of the individual known as Tuvix, who had a distinct personality all of his own.
This is also the reason why their Doctor refused to perform the procedure, when he had discovered a way to separate them, as it would be a violation of his oath as a physician to harm none. As Tuvix would indeed be killed in the procedure.
The same principle applies to both Connie and Tina 2.1.
They’re both separate entities from what came before.
But if Tina’s soul were put back into Tina’s body, then the current entity known as Tina 2.1 would cease to exist, as her demons would no longer be in the driving seat, but Tina 1.0.
Same with Connie, as she’d cease to exist and Shelly’s demons would be returned to Shelly..
So two entities would end up killed, and effectively you’d only get one single person back for it.
Killing 1 entity to save two people is a steep price, but it can be argued. Destroying two entities to save 1 person, all talk about individuality not withstanding, that seems to be a rather bad trade off.
Note that I haven’t said that either Connie or Tina 2.1 is a person. I’ve noted that they’re entities.
But entities with distinct personalities all of their own, which could justify the argument that they should be considered persons, as Julie is arguing. It’s just not the argument that I’m making. 😛
A person has certain rights and responsibilities, but then so do entities. They’re just different categories.
And as I’ve said before, at the end of the day, you’re talking about the destruction of two entities, to recreate a singular life.
Would Becky want Tina 1.0 back (whom she doesn’t know), or would she prefer to keep Tina 2.1 (her boss and friend) around?
Same applies to the varying customers of the shop.
Would Tina 1.0 even be safe? While he old man might be dead, doesn’t mean that his organization is as well, and that could still be harmed by her testifying. (Because that is what Tina 1.0 had originally been planning on doing.)
And we haven’t heard anything about the rest of her kinfolk. Who might also be involved and not to keen on her squealing to the Authorities.
Tina 2.1 doesn’t have to worry about that, considering her abilities.
Also I don’t think that Shelly would approve of anyone trying to harm Connie. Connie saved her bacon in the Forest of Time, and turnabout would be fair play as well.
So all in all, the whole idea of nixing Connie, getting Tina 1.0’s soul out of her and stuffing her back in her own body, seems like a bad idea, considering all the consequences, and opposition involved.
So the question “Why would I do that?” from Tuesday is critical. It is the question of consent.
We already know that major plot twists have depended on demons wanting to enjoy experiences as a soul would. So that’s a given possibility.
The unasked question is whether Tinasoul ever yearned to experience the world as a demon. Given her background, that’s not impossible either. But we don’t know either way, yet.
In any case, if the natural state of souls and demons is to part ways upon the death of a body–and Connie has asserted she will expire when Shelly does–then at worst Connie is a temporary prison, and her alloyed bits will come apart at that time.
The problem with your example is that you’d portray Connie as a coven just like Tina 2.1, that’s just not the case.
Heck, she’s more akin to Monica in a way, who is, iirc, merged with all her demons now. They no longer control her, they’ve just become aspects of her own personality. The main difference between Monica and Connie is whose soul is used.
Also I don’t recall her demons asking for the merger either, so by your argument, Monica should then also be taken apart so her demons can be free again.
Also, the principle that created Connie is also used to make a homunculus, and I suspect it’s the same basic principle behind the Golem Girls as well. Or would you argue that Jin, Bud and Brandi are not individuals either?
The bodies they’re inhabiting are not their natural ones after all. Plus the Girls as the Chimera functioned like Tina 2.1, three minds, in constant dialogue with one and other to decide what to do.
That’s just not the case with Connie, there are no other voices within her, and there’s no evidence to the contrary of that. She’s just herself and acts as Shelly’s conscience, as well as bratty baby sister.
Plus it would also mean the destruction of Tina 2.1, as it would mean the return of Tina 1.0
As for the consent aspect and righting a wrong.
Righting a wrong is a noble thing, but if you commit a wrong to right a wrong, you still end up as wrong.
Sometimes in life, you just have to accept, what is done is done. You break it, you buy it and then try to move on and not make the same mistakes again.
We’ve just had partial confirmation that Connie is a soul alloyed with demons, and then she comes out and teases us by comparing the Christian Saviour (said to have separated such combos) to a modern trans icon.
Where was the first such orang you saw in the Library? I don’t remember ever seeing one. Do you recall a date, or what the plotline was doing around then?
Never have seen one, but I figure that the Library and the UU Library must be connected by L-Space, so there is always a posichancity that the UU Librarian will stop by for a courtesy call to Phix. Maybe. Someday.
the is: do they WANT to get off… and NOT be able to get back ON?… with Monica they way she was before the CM fix, the demons could get out, do stuff and when the reset happened they would also be reset (i think that’s what Jin’s Doubt was implying, not sure really) and then they went on with their own agendas… now that the CM has been “fixed” they’re stuck with the same monotony of eternity… not sure if they CAN get off the merry-go-round at this point.
And the next day’s strip is Katherine, actually making a funny joke and being unintentionally cute. Where’s she been through all of this? Hoping she makes an appearance somewhere in the near future …
Katherine is hanging out with Amanda, eating pizza delivered by Dylan, who is hoping to get her car back from Shelly’s dad soon. They may go out to Darin’s bar later.
Ok, now you’ve really done it. Invoking the spirit of cricket, twice?? while waiting for a Wapsi update?
We’re doomed.
Anyone who follows cricket knows that it’s an unparalleled exercise in prolonged delay, boredom, and torture for the spectators. Even a single first-class cricket match goes on for three to five days before a winner is declared (and many matches end in a draw). Entire countries have been founded, elected governments, and been torn part by revolution and decay over the duration of a full Test series. Shelly’s 80,000 years in the Time Forest pales by comparison.
We won’t get a cliffhanger this week, folks. The cliff will have eroded away and washed into the sea first. All because Fairportfan just had to stir up a demonic “sport”.
Coming into the fourth hour of the Wapsi Fan Marathon … hear that click-click-clicking … yes, folks, that’s the sound of dozens of F5 keys nationwide clicking away, causing some poor server somewhere to break into a sweat!
Right now, poor thing is setting up an automailer bot to start sending panic emails to Pablo every 5 seconds, reading just one sentence: “THEYRE KILLING ME!!!! PLEASE UPLOAD!!!!”
And there goes another fan, grumbling something about “their damned day job” and shuffling off to bed! We’ll see who’s still in the race when today’s cliffhanger finally uploads! You’ll know it’s here by the screams as we enter into another long weekend of angst, here at …
Yeah. And what ever happened to Stinky? Is he ok or had he been made into calamari fritti with garlic oil and hot peppers by the U-boat explosion?? (I’ve also been wondering if he could be related to Doc’s fridge monster. The resemblance is striking and the vocalizations very similar.)
I dó hope everything is allright in Minneapolis, because this is the first time that I can remember it took thís long for the update… *worries for a bit*
happy anniversary! many happy returns of the day!! 😀
my parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary…i told mama she is now officially an old fart. she smacked me and i still havent figured out why! 0;)
I. have. no. idea. what. is. going. on. … *cries*
There, there, console yourself, fellow Towelie, that you are not the only one…
The working theory is that when Tina, Monica, and Shelly all (nearly) died in the bus crash incident, to make sure they survived, their demons were instructed (by Jin? Nudge?) to block their souls from leaving their bodies.
Shelly and Monica were planned for, their demons warned in advance; Tina, not so much, so when it was clear she was going to die, Shelly’s demons (were told to/decided on their own so as not to be responsible for a human death) block Tina’s soul from departing also… but that’s not the proper way to go about it; Shelly’s demons have no connection to Tina’s body. Tina’s disembodied soul somehow got dragged back to Shelly’s body instead (through the metaphorical “demon entrance”) and became the catalyst to combine all Shelly’s demons (and a human soul) together into a single entity.
Conclusion: “Conscience” is not just a melded demon, but Tina (the original girl’s soul) as well.
The order-obsessed sphinxes have rules for dealing with demons (whom they hate) and rules about human souls (whom they protect) but what are they supposed to do with a half-n-half hybrid?
Like racist fanatics who honestly believed blacks were a less hairy form of monkey, and that white people were the chosen of God, made in His divine image… Connie is a mulatto child who should not even be able to exist as far as their beliefs go.
The problem with getting information from Nudge is that often not even she knows what she was thinking about or planning.
And in what way does this differ from anyone else?
This sums it up: “No plan of battle survives contact with the enemy.” – The Art Of War
“We have met the enemy, and he is us.” – Pogo
I laughed.
I cried,
I’ve kissed three bucks goodby…
along with my brain.. so confused!!
Actually, I think that was Moltke who said that. :p
The Elder.
If Nudge is telling the truth here (hard to be sure without independent confirmation… she is Coyote, after all) it does make it look as if there’s another player involved, setting up whatever took place among the demons which led to M’s accident and Tina’s death.
This is feeling like it could be chessmaster Brandi at work somehow… maybe involving the “deal” she said she made (which her words impied was with something demonic or at least paranormal). It doesn’t seem directly related to anything we’ve seen her read out of the cross-the-CM-loops book she wrote, but who knows?
Or this is the hand of Phix here… she DID say that she liked how she turned out, possibly implying that she knew what was up all along, but as a surprise to Tina she was playing it straight and not telling her that she knew what was up…
As a trickster god, “truth” has no particular relationship to anything that comes out of Nudge’s mouth. Not that she seeks likes, that would be an opposition to truth; rather, the fun story axis is orthogonal to the factual reporting axis. As an example, consider Nudge saying both of these lines, possibly within minutes of each other:
“Bwahaha! Another brilliant plan comes off without a hitch!”
“Plan? I don’t make plans; I just, you know, do stuff.”
Just wanna remind everybody not to insult poor Coyote/Nudge by implying that she lies all the time, or even a lot.
One of my own traits is that I am, when I need to be, a seriously good bull**** artist. I will dance around the truth, I will avoid answering the question, I perhaps will even give half an answer then leave you to your own devices and take no credit (or blame) when, instead of asking questions, you fill in the blanks yourself with incorrect assumptions.
But every word I actually said, every concept I actually claimed … was true. Not my fault you went tearing off without making sure you had the whole answer, didn’t ask more questions, right? 😉
Not something I do all the time, and in Nudge’s case not even something I think she does intentionally, it’s just her nature. As proven by the “Heinz 57” assertion. ::snicker::
We also learned a couple more ways to avoid an answer: ask a question in return, or make an accusation or complaint. Anything to keep the other fellow on the defensive.
Ooo, Nudge has a new do.
I think this is the first time I have seen Connie look pleased.
We’ve seen her look pleasant, it was quite a shocker, too
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/wormholes/
I dunno, I kinda like FABULOOOOUS Connie… its a lot better than grouchy..
Love Nudges hair. Looks good longer.
Doesn’t look like it’ll last though. It’s already far shorter by Panel#2. Didn’t even make it a full comic. (>^_^)>
So will she start to show outward – or inward – traits of Tina 1.0? Seems like after 80K years, if it was gonna happen, it’d have happened by now….unless the soul has been unaware all this time.
Given we don’t know much about Tina 1.0, maybe Connie’s perpetual sarcasm and cynicism is also partly a manifestation of Tina? Maybe. Possibly.
Could be – people have speculated that her behavior ws a carryover from being a Daddy’s Little Princess in her prior life.
I still don’t buy the “Daddy’s Little Princess” theory since she was going to testify against him. I’d go more with “Principled Person Who Doesn’t Like the Situation She Was Born Into”…but that’s just me. 😛
Perhaps if we express enough curiosity Paul will weave the answer into the storyline – if it’s not already there now.
And who is Rupaul???
Famous drag queen. Kind of fabulous.
He is also a musician and recorded Supermodel (You Better Work), which is a dance song that uses the word “Work” a lot. That explains CLG’s pose.
http://www.advocate.com/uploadedImages/RuPaul_1.jpg
There! Him!
You mean ‘her’ 😉
Him. Her. It. Them.
That, there.
As an Atlantan, i was wondering how long it would take till someone asked.
I had to go look him up.
Her.
It.
Whatever.
there has been a bit on tv in UK a while back…
AFAICS he prefers male id, but is part of a body-mod ‘dandy’ club… but then he could have just been trying to confuse the press!!
I would say ” whatever is, is whatever does” .. just twisted….. :/
RuPaul isn’t Jesus?!!
No – he’s God.
I thought Lemmy (or Eric Clapton) was God.
Actually, it’s Jerry Garcia and his bandmates, working collectively, who form the modern rock incarnation of Deity. I’m sure you can see why…
No, George Burns is God. Everyone knows that.
Or am I dating myself?
To all of those seeing the name RuPaul and saying “who?” … ::grumble:: thanks, now I feel even older than I did yesterday.
Don’t worry. Eventually you’ll get used to that.
Of course, by then he’ll be even older!!!
Honestly, Rupaul has his “Drag U” show these days so it’s not really an age thing.
I. Love. Her. So. Much.
Called it. No way a curveball like Nudge would be put into a deeper loop by Brandis 1-56. She’d have to be there by accident, or if Brandi knew she was a factor, put outside the relevant actions.
Also, I now consider it canonical that RuPaul is the returned Jesus of Nazareth within the Wapsiverse.
Your use of “curveball” is a good one. Actually, a related sports metaphor is coming up for me.
Somebody is playing one hell of a game of billiards here, with Nudge as one of the “intermediate” balls in a complex combination shot. “Tina’s soul in the side pocket, with M’s and Shelly’s souls rebounding back into play.”
Billiards, with a really complicated series of moves to set up this shot. Brandi is the logical suspect for any set-up that complicated (and, frankly, more than a bit cold-hearted) but it could be a new player from off-stage, I suppose. Whether Jin is a “shooter” or just another “ball”… I just don’t know.
Billiards, chess, and orbital mechanics (a weird mix of predictable deterministic behavior, and sheer chaos and the butterfly effect). Wow.
I’ve thought through some pretty complex stuff in my day… but if what is going on here is as involved as it now looks to me, it’s way out of my league, and I’m sorta glad. Pushing peoples’ lives around like that would be scary biscuits!
Billiards and orbital mechanics? Lister, is that you?
I am having my suspicions that the puppeteer is Shelly herself.
Well., given that Shellinx is referred-to as “The Sage” by some mythological beings, I wouldn’t be too surprised.
Shelly hád her bouts of pure genius, but they were (more often than not) snowed-under by her anxt and blatant bone-headedness on many an occasion…..
The parameters of what Brandis 1-56 had to keep from Jin and everyone native to Earth 57, including Brandi 57, are as impressive as we were initially led to believe. I had been whining about how Brandi 57 was in the dark about too many factors to be believable, but actually it stands every chance of pulling together perfectly.
As for Nudge. She can’t be of help in determining how the final fusion of Connie came about, but she does have two potentially important leads in that immortal brain of hers:
1. Why did she seek out and reanimate Tina?
2. What was she doing in the boiler room?
Thinking about it, the boiler room bit may just have been the foreshadowing for this revelation.
I think we’ve always assumed that Tina ended up in the Boiler Room as the result of Monica’s tipsy mis-poiting, but that may not be the case.
Monica has been shown poiting herself and others to/from places in the main Wapsi world, and to/from the Library. I don’t recall any other example of her (apparently) poiting people to a weird other-space like Shelly’s boiler room. Was Monica even aware of that “place”?
For that matter, I don’t think it’s ever been explained how/why Shelly’s tattoo-doorway was switched into the not-visible “lock” mode, thus trapping Tina in the boiler room.
So, possibly, Tina got into the boiler room via some other pathway (perhaps direct entry through Shelly’s tattoo?) and the door got locked behind her?
1. It has been implied, if not stated outright, that Tina did NOT die in the car “accident” in ANY of the previous loops. The accident didn’t happen. So Monica could not have been the “door” in those loops, so none of the methods they tried COULD work. In trying to make certain that the loops would continue, the demons made the one missing condition necessary to break the loops.
But, a living Tina was necessary to make it all come together, so steps had to be taken. It was a big commitment, as Nudge’s job through out the loops was to, well, nudge things into place for the next loop to get closer to what had to be.
I think the pun jar is nudging you for that line.
I am amused by your assumption of RuPaul as the returned Jesus in the Wapsiverse…and I choose to second your decision that it should be considered canon. 😛
I’ll be the third on that, motion passed, RuPaul is Jesus reborn in the Wapsiverse! Work it girl!
Just don’t lose the wig and padding…
“Look at me, I’m fabulous” moment in panel 2
(well deserved)
Ok, I gotta ask this.
I’ve been wondering about Nudge’s looks recently – Paul’s artwork doesn’t go into these kind of details (which is perfectly all right, it wouldn’t even look good – but I still wanna know)
Are the “spiky things” on her shoulders (and neck)simply fur, or some bony protrusions?
Also, the marks in her face – is it pigmentation or skin (horn?) formations?
Does she have fur on her face?
For reference: creepy Tina-Nudge
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/call-me-nudge/
Those things seem to be bone spikes…
She has protrusions on her neck, too. I think they’re to discourage strangulation.
Yes, Nudge being as she is, it must become handy at times 😀
I can’t remember where, but I think it was addressed at one point by Paul…it might have been around the time that someone decided to make a sculpture of Nudge…
Curse my poor memory and the HUGE archive I’d have to wade through to find anything that specific!!! 🙂
‘T was me.. And I asked Paul for a pretty specific description, and he obliged. They’re boney ridges. her neck has them at the back too, running toward her spine.
The spots are something between freckles and moles.
Well, “prettyness” isn’t Nudge, but the end-result is a enjoyable, comical “oddball” character. Utterly original.
Is Connie going to do a Sailor Moon, Cutey Honey type transformation?
I see sparlklies! Magicks gonna happen!
Oh, that would have been perfect if she did. I used to think that was how RuPaul transformed as a kid. “Drag Queen Power! Make-up!” And Bam! Sailor RuPaul.
Also, last panel is brilliant.
I like sparklies! 🙂 The fact that she made those to emphasize her fabulousness just makes me love Connie even more.
If she did a Sailor Moon-style transformation though, I might be a little weirded out. 😛
Why would you be wierded out? Everything would be better if everyone used a Sailor Moon transformation!
Observe:
http://imgur.com/gallery/SCjTG
As far as recent examples go, I kinda like this rather unexpected one… 🙂
There’s one problem with Sailor Moon transformations.
They rely on your opponent being willing to stand there and wait for you to finish.
There was supposed to be a link in there…
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh159/esrafael/1234307970661vq4.jpg
Prediction for tomorrow’s cliffhanger:
Connie goes for a coffee .-)
Tina 1.0 apparently didn’t care much for coffee.
What gives a yo that idea???
Probably because she collected tea-pots…
I would so want to attend services at The First Curch of Our Fabulous Lord.
Me too! LMAO!!!
“And know this, above everything — you are all — just Super!”
I would attend any church with a name that awesome. 🙂 The problem is that the Lord (be He ever so Fabulous) might not be present to lead the services.
As metaphors go, that is certainly descriptive.
Um…I may have meant “similes,” not “metaphors.”
Let’s just call it a parable and leave it at that.
But, with a trickster-demigoddess like Nudge, if she tells a parable you can be pretty sure that she just lied to you. Twice.
I think we’re referring to Connie’s sparkly self-comparison to the Divine. It’s even distracting the Nudgster.
… well really to RuPaul. I don’t think she was serious about him being divine (well not Jesus, anyway 😆 ). That’s obviously RuPaul’s song that she’s invoking.
She may not be serious…but I halfway want her to be! It’s so sacrilegious it’s brilliant! 😀
Connie definitely breaks the assumptions of the spiritual binary.
But it’s only sacrilegious if you’re, say, raised Catholic. It’s much more acceptable to followers of a tripartite goddess…
http://wapsisquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dia-de-la-muerta.jpg
…for example.
work!
Is this implicit proof that Shelly can poit? IIRC, this is her first time in the library sans accompianist or anywhere else for that matter.
I assume she’s coming in through the special entrance, not poiting, as she did with Justin.
Paul is pretty good with jump cuts.
Thanks dog for that. One page per day with plot twists like this is jarring enough, imagine, if it took him 4-5 strips now to get to the library…
Yeah, pretty sure this scene isn’t continuous with the last one – we’ve just skipped ahead to after they’ve tracked down their suspect…
Agreed. Remember, Paul jump-cut from away from the Library right after “Nudge, stop!” a few weeks ago… we still have no idea how Shelly’s actual “lesson” with Phix worked out.
This jump-cut back to the Library simply balances out that one. Some sort of weird Law of Conservation perhaps?
Given that poiting can occur when you’ve been to the place you poit to, Shelinix probably can poit because she’s a sphinx. I’ll presume this was one of the lessons from Phix, thus not available to her in the Time Forest, due to lack of practice.
Or, she used the Library door. That works too!
Speaking of which. Reread some of the previous comics, with Tina accidentally setting up Shelly to kill Nudge.
Prior folks were saying impossible, due to Shelly being human and Nudge being a Demigod.
But would that still apply now, with Shelly being a Sphinx?
Phix did (reluctantly) warn Nudge to stay out of the apos’ way, and in the reunion scene Nudge does look more terrified of Shelly being told to kill her than she was of being beat on by Tina 2.1.
So the possibility that sphinxes can kill otherwise immortal demigods is still on the table, but not yet confirmed either way.
@IS_Wolf: It means that, at the time Nudge was in real danger of being beaten to death by Shelly – when she returned from the Time Forest, she said “I’v always been a Sphinx”, and thus was vulnerable to death at Shelly’s hand prior to the Time Forest.
@NOTDilbert
Meant that more in the sense, that Shelly’s sphinxness does throw a different light on things.
But Yamara got what I was driving at. XD
Phix herself does not seem to poit, but rather use an idiosyncratic method of transport of dissimilar mechanisms but comparable results.
Dang. I think I sprained my keyboard.
As best I have been able to work it out, the Library sort of extrudes itself into another location, carrying Phix with it, and then withdraws, leaving Phix. Or perhaps it could be said to overwrite local space with L-space? Works the other way around as well, as when Phix finally caught up with Nudge/Tina in the coffee shop, and pulled Tina and Monica into the Library. I cannot offhand recall any instance where Phix went from place to place in the Wapsiverse without returning to, and leaving from, the Library.
The method appears to be silent, unlike a poit.
Phix’s appearances never accompany the “poit” sound effect. So FatUncle is probably right, the Library itself opens a doorway.
Shelly herself denies being able to teleport here:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/apples-to-oranges/
Opening a door, or the slower speed of the library extending and withdrawing, would explain the lack of noise in either case–as I think of it, the POIT! of poiting comes from the sudden presence or absence of an object displacing the air as it moves to compensate.
Moreover, Phix has the ability to call people to the library. That’s quite something when you think about it.
I can only think one thing. ‘Faaaabulous.”
Tomorrow’s cliffhanger… a comment/contribution by Phix?
Hmm… is RuPaul still bunking on Monica’s couch?
Shouldn’t that be “got you lost”? The verb tenses don’t seem to match up.
Agreed, “picked” and “get” are in different verb tenses.
EARLY MORNING PROOFREADING SQUAD, ASSEMBLE!
(and I have that much energy at 0700 without coffee. Never touch the stuff, either.)
No, it’s correct when read as “I just picked a shape I knew you would follow, and [would] get you lost.”
I’m two cups of coffee further into the pot that I usually am at this time of the morning.
“than”
Still doesn’t make up for only four hours of sleep, it appears.
I suppose if you want to split fine hairs of what passes for grammar in English, it could work, but it causes what my father used to call “reader speed-bumps” – that moment when your brain goes “no, that’s not right…well, OK…if you insist…”. Of course, as a friend of mine likes to say “English does not borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleys, clubs them over the head, and then searches their pockets for loose grammar.”
The problem for you might have been the unnecessary comma. It causes a further separation from the “would” which is already hidden in a contraction. It didn’t bother me, though.
I’ve gotten spanked for insisting on perfect grammar; Paul has pointed out that most people, including his characters, use all sorts of verbal shorthands. So unless the grammar is so mangled that I cannot understand what is being said, I ignore it.
I may have to steal what your friend says about English, Dave11. 🙂 That may be one of the best things I’ve read ever (second to RuPaul as the returned Messiah).
Comes from being raised by Vikings, and then made to work for Normans for table scraps while they burned your books.
Grendel would be your role model, too.
That is a quote from James Nicoll, an acquaintance of mine – and it’s incomplete.
The full quote is:
“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
(The above link is well worth following up, BTW.)”
“English is the result of Viking sailors chatting up Saxon barmaids.”
The original quote is by James Nicoll, posted in 1990 at rec.arts.sf-lovers: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”
Bah. I hadn’t seen FPF’s post, and there’s no way to delete. Sorry for the duplicate.
Oh – and Cally Soukop’s list of “Nicoll Events” is absolutely hilarious. James is well known for leading an … eventful … life, wherein the phrase “…when I awoke in a pool of blood…” is not only not unlikely but rather mild.
FPF –
What I quoted was the version my friend uses. I wasn’t aware of the original. Of course, I could always go with another quote (not sure where this one came from either, and my google-fu is taking a break): “[English] started as a bad habit shared by Norman sailors and Saxon barmaids so they could do other things to and with each other”.
An excellent book on the topic is Anguished Engrish. I’d recommend two readings – once to laugh your ass off, once to improve your skills at our “language”.
@eschmenk – yeah, removing the comma after follow would work perfectly.
Dave, the two forms of the quote illustrates something–either that most people don’t always use perfect grammar, or that many people don’t quote perfectly, or have perfect knowledge, or something. But it does illustrate various themes in the Wapsiverse.
The problems with that are that “Would follow” is past tense and “you would get you lost” sounds incorrect as well, as in that case, it would be “you would get yourself lost” and the fact that she’s back to talking about what she did, thus the phrase reflects off the subject “I” which “get you lost” refers to.
Fireworks and lens flare…don’t tell me, the library can do VFX for the sphinxes.
Gotta wonder how many other times the law of unintended consequences has bitten Nudge.
That’s Connie, not Shelly, which means she’s the one doing the FX’s.
Paul uses lens flare often, perhaps because he originally was a photographer. But yes, the sparklies were from Connie.
Sooo….. Connie is Shelly’s demons as aggregate, combined with Tina 1.0’s soul? Hmmm — Does Connie have any of Tina’s memories buried under there? If so:
— Does she still want vengeance on “daddy” and those around him?
— Will she try and rescue “mommy” from daddy and the organization holding/using her?
— Will the drug lord’s allies likewise suffer her wrath?
She’s had 80K years to brood and a whole slew of new powers to sort out, and now has some very powerful allies should she use them…
Paul has hinted at a Tina spinoff. Her crime family would have to be a big part of it.
Wapsi has always acknowledged the darkness out there, but is a classic dramatic comedy in structure. Everyone will pair off happily in the “end”, and life will be affirmed.
Tina may not be able to participate in such an ending, and that would be a notable twist, in keeping with the theme: Others’ pursuits of happiness come at a sacrifice. Tina has her own story to tell, and it’s darker than what fits in here.
Best. Analogy. Ever. to describe the ultimate O_o moment. And yeah, I love Nudge’s new look.
Dude, I could live in that world…
You and most of the rest of us. 🙂 I think that we all have wanted to live there at some point or another…
I, on the other hand, have already seen too much of THE WIND to deny what it truly holds.
So I wouldn’t mind a visit if those vimana cells ever go offline.
Don’t ruin this for me man. Don’t make Wapsiverse like our world. Cause those “dullards” were actually druids whose homes got replaced by the city.
I don’t think so (about the moral obligation bit). I’m thinking that “the gang” would only feel they need to fix the things that are broken…like the Calendar Machine and Crazy Jin. Tina isn’t broken so much as she’s just different.
I suppose it could be argued that being without a soul is “being broken,” but you also have to consider the growth that the demon collective is experiencing as Tina 2.1. To reintroduce Tina’s soul back into that mix would negate the “person” that the new Tina has become…not to mention what it might do to Connie…and by association to Shelly.
Agree that Connie’s Tina 1.0 component should not be required to (re-)merge with Tina 2.1’s collective. They’ve both gone their own ways.
As the Tinas are separate beings now, I’m reminded of the main character in Jack, wherein a horrendously evil man (Jack) died, became the incarnate Sin of Wrath, and made amnesiac as part of the punishment. But — now blind to his past, he’s a honest, diligent, and honorable Grim Reaper who’s never so much as started a bar fight for the hell of it.
With that in mind, merging Tina 1.0 and 2.1 may be simply a bad idea to re-acquaint their memories.
By “Tina get back her soul”, do you mean turning Tina’s soul back over to the demons that got her killed, and the aging body they’ve been plying with pizza and pastries?
Or do you mean freeing her soul from the demons she’s been alloyed* with for 10k times a human lifespan in an existence she finds occasionally pleasurable?
I’d suppose the soul would continue its journey through its doorway before wanting to return to Chubby Grumpy Tentacle House. That body is 1/20,000 her age, and it’s already falling apart.
*Kudos to kingklash for the “alloy” terminology.
Great thought… but Tina at this point has a “covey” 😀 of demons of her own. Connie appears to be a blend of Shelly’s demons plus (if we’re right about this), Tina’s original soul. So: I doubt Tina would care to adopt Shelly’s demons – it will be interesting to see how Tina’s soul can be returned to her, and what will be the ultimate fate of Creepy Little Girl. Great stuff…
Connie as an alloy of demons. And she’s groovy with it.
Have to nickname her “Helen”.
Did she launch a thousand ships? Or sink them?
Just a pair–is that enough?
Yup 🙂
I read about a cousin of hers many years ago and the image stuck in my mind, as they will do…
I had a similar thought.
That would be akin to splitting Tuvix back into Neelix and Tuvok, with the additional complication, that Connie and Tina 2.1 are separate entities of their own as well.
So it wouldn’t just be killing 1 to get back 2 people. But killing two to get back 1 person. Not quite sure that balances out.
Also, Connie could, in theory, simply hand her former body over to Tina 2.1.
It’s not like she’s losing her soul.
Souls lose bodies all the time.
So I was right on Tuesday. “Why would I do that?” [block two souls’ doorways] is the more important question.
Now to find someone who can answer it.
Yes, people die and are revived all the time…but some people die and are revived only to be brain-dead vegetables. I would imagine that this is more akin to what happened with Tina’s body. Her soul didn’t return, so her body (still alive…or at least enough so that she can visit hospitals without creating panic) would have been vegetative if Nudge hadn’t convinced the demons to get up.
Yes…I would (if given the choice) want to have my body and soul united instead of having a living body in one corner and my soul stuck in the other…but I also would rather have my soul merged into a strange new being than actually “pass through” the doorway to leave me body vegetative. *shrugs* It’s all a matter of perspective I suppose.
Connie seem to know that when Shelly dies, she dies.
But if she is part soul, what does that mean? Everyone parts ways again?
And how did Connie know that in the first place? If fusion with a soul under these circumstances is one of the standard Demonic Rules, then her existence would not be surprise to anyone who has to follow or enforce them.
I should hasten to point out that even apos didn’t want to try and take her apart. I wouldn’t be so quick to think that was a good idea, or even possible, if they’re backing off.
“Caution: entity contains no user-serviceable parts. Risk of psychic shock. Do not open.”
(It’s probably tattooed on the back of her neck)
I would agree that Connie was created by compressing many individual entities, but she is one entity/person now. She is mortal (in that her life will end when Shelly’s does), and she is capable of independent thought. She just seems to lack a true body. *shrugs* I’d still consider her a person.
I can see where it would be harder to call Tina 2.1 a “person.” However, she (even as a conglomerate of demons) is a unique entity with a living body and personality all her own. People could easily argue that in the Wapsiverse most people have multiple demons voicing opinions and contributing to individual actions. Monica’s just one of the few who could actually see and interact with hers. Based on this, I’d say that Tina meets enough of the definition of “person” to merit the title. 🙂
Well, I was referencing a Star Trek Voyager episode, where due to a transporter mishap the characters Tuvok and Neelix got fused into a singular being known as Tuvix.
The argument, that neither Tuvok nor Neelix would want to be merged, was used as the justification to separate them back into their component pieces.
However, this also meant the death of the individual known as Tuvix, who had a distinct personality all of his own.
This is also the reason why their Doctor refused to perform the procedure, when he had discovered a way to separate them, as it would be a violation of his oath as a physician to harm none. As Tuvix would indeed be killed in the procedure.
The same principle applies to both Connie and Tina 2.1.
They’re both separate entities from what came before.
But if Tina’s soul were put back into Tina’s body, then the current entity known as Tina 2.1 would cease to exist, as her demons would no longer be in the driving seat, but Tina 1.0.
Same with Connie, as she’d cease to exist and Shelly’s demons would be returned to Shelly..
So two entities would end up killed, and effectively you’d only get one single person back for it.
Killing 1 entity to save two people is a steep price, but it can be argued. Destroying two entities to save 1 person, all talk about individuality not withstanding, that seems to be a rather bad trade off.
Note that I haven’t said that either Connie or Tina 2.1 is a person. I’ve noted that they’re entities.
But entities with distinct personalities all of their own, which could justify the argument that they should be considered persons, as Julie is arguing. It’s just not the argument that I’m making. 😛
A person has certain rights and responsibilities, but then so do entities. They’re just different categories.
And as I’ve said before, at the end of the day, you’re talking about the destruction of two entities, to recreate a singular life.
Would Becky want Tina 1.0 back (whom she doesn’t know), or would she prefer to keep Tina 2.1 (her boss and friend) around?
Same applies to the varying customers of the shop.
Would Tina 1.0 even be safe? While he old man might be dead, doesn’t mean that his organization is as well, and that could still be harmed by her testifying. (Because that is what Tina 1.0 had originally been planning on doing.)
And we haven’t heard anything about the rest of her kinfolk. Who might also be involved and not to keen on her squealing to the Authorities.
Tina 2.1 doesn’t have to worry about that, considering her abilities.
Also I don’t think that Shelly would approve of anyone trying to harm Connie. Connie saved her bacon in the Forest of Time, and turnabout would be fair play as well.
So all in all, the whole idea of nixing Connie, getting Tina 1.0’s soul out of her and stuffing her back in her own body, seems like a bad idea, considering all the consequences, and opposition involved.
So the question “Why would I do that?” from Tuesday is critical. It is the question of consent.
We already know that major plot twists have depended on demons wanting to enjoy experiences as a soul would. So that’s a given possibility.
The unasked question is whether Tinasoul ever yearned to experience the world as a demon. Given her background, that’s not impossible either. But we don’t know either way, yet.
In any case, if the natural state of souls and demons is to part ways upon the death of a body–and Connie has asserted she will expire when Shelly does–then at worst Connie is a temporary prison, and her alloyed bits will come apart at that time.
Also, this makes the comparison to Jesus particularly strong.
Real people have killed and been murdered over what the nature of the incarnation was, and how it was supposed to work.
The problem with your example is that you’d portray Connie as a coven just like Tina 2.1, that’s just not the case.
Heck, she’s more akin to Monica in a way, who is, iirc, merged with all her demons now. They no longer control her, they’ve just become aspects of her own personality. The main difference between Monica and Connie is whose soul is used.
Also I don’t recall her demons asking for the merger either, so by your argument, Monica should then also be taken apart so her demons can be free again.
Also, the principle that created Connie is also used to make a homunculus, and I suspect it’s the same basic principle behind the Golem Girls as well. Or would you argue that Jin, Bud and Brandi are not individuals either?
The bodies they’re inhabiting are not their natural ones after all. Plus the Girls as the Chimera functioned like Tina 2.1, three minds, in constant dialogue with one and other to decide what to do.
That’s just not the case with Connie, there are no other voices within her, and there’s no evidence to the contrary of that. She’s just herself and acts as Shelly’s conscience, as well as bratty baby sister.
Plus it would also mean the destruction of Tina 2.1, as it would mean the return of Tina 1.0
As for the consent aspect and righting a wrong.
Righting a wrong is a noble thing, but if you commit a wrong to right a wrong, you still end up as wrong.
Sometimes in life, you just have to accept, what is done is done. You break it, you buy it and then try to move on and not make the same mistakes again.
I think I need a refresher primer or cliff notes. All of this arc has gone over my head
Just do what everyone else does* and reread the past year or so. should do the trick..
(please read: I do)
or sit in the confusion corner and wait for the next comic.
I’ve just gotta say, this is FAR too early to be into three digit comments! And it’s not even Friday!!!
We’ve just had partial confirmation that Connie is a soul alloyed with demons, and then she comes out and teases us by comparing the Christian Saviour (said to have separated such combos) to a modern trans icon.
That is going to elicit comments.
You mean to tell me that Rupaul is NOT Jesus?!
Duhn duhn duuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnn!
Connie said nothing of the kind! Heretic.
Whenever we are in the Library, I still look for an orangutan in the background.
Where was the first such orang you saw in the Library? I don’t remember ever seeing one. Do you recall a date, or what the plotline was doing around then?
Never have seen one, but I figure that the Library and the UU Library must be connected by L-Space, so there is always a posichancity that the UU Librarian will stop by for a courtesy call to Phix. Maybe. Someday.
Ah, OK – thanks for the explanation.
I thought you might just be gibbon me a hard time.
(*clink*)
What kind of ape do you take me for? I’m not going to monkey around about something like that!
*clink clink*
Ook.
Oy
Boxilar, that counts, pay up.
Sooo… what happens when the rest of the demons find that merging with a soul is how to get off the merry-go-round?
the is: do they WANT to get off… and NOT be able to get back ON?… with Monica they way she was before the CM fix, the demons could get out, do stuff and when the reset happened they would also be reset (i think that’s what Jin’s Doubt was implying, not sure really) and then they went on with their own agendas… now that the CM has been “fixed” they’re stuck with the same monotony of eternity… not sure if they CAN get off the merry-go-round at this point.
ARGH… i meant to say: The question is: Do they…
Yet another random Wapsi Square link while U wait for the site to update:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/tellyouwhat/
Here’s some more flashback-for-thought:
http://wapsisquare.com/comic/feelnormal/
thats one of those magical strips that no matter how many times i see it, i laugh.
And the next day’s strip is Katherine, actually making a funny joke and being unintentionally cute. Where’s she been through all of this? Hoping she makes an appearance somewhere in the near future …
Katherine is hanging out with Amanda, eating pizza delivered by Dylan, who is hoping to get her car back from Shelly’s dad soon. They may go out to Darin’s bar later.
“Man, people are doing things we don’t even KNOW about!!!”
heh, it’s like you never see toilets in star trek, star wars, etc….
* cricket * cricket *
Ok, now you’ve really done it. Invoking the spirit of cricket, twice?? while waiting for a Wapsi update?
We’re doomed.
Anyone who follows cricket knows that it’s an unparalleled exercise in prolonged delay, boredom, and torture for the spectators. Even a single first-class cricket match goes on for three to five days before a winner is declared (and many matches end in a draw). Entire countries have been founded, elected governments, and been torn part by revolution and decay over the duration of a full Test series. Shelly’s 80,000 years in the Time Forest pales by comparison.
We won’t get a cliffhanger this week, folks. The cliff will have eroded away and washed into the sea first. All because Fairportfan just had to stir up a demonic “sport”.
That was wicket, man.
And then there’s what happened during and after the Krikket Wars (Life, the Universe, and Everything).
Coming into the fourth hour of the Wapsi Fan Marathon … hear that click-click-clicking … yes, folks, that’s the sound of dozens of F5 keys nationwide clicking away, causing some poor server somewhere to break into a sweat!
Right now, poor thing is setting up an automailer bot to start sending panic emails to Pablo every 5 seconds, reading just one sentence: “THEYRE KILLING ME!!!! PLEASE UPLOAD!!!!”
And there goes another fan, grumbling something about “their damned day job” and shuffling off to bed! We’ll see who’s still in the race when today’s cliffhanger finally uploads! You’ll know it’s here by the screams as we enter into another long weekend of angst, here at …
The Wapsi Fan Marathon!
(damn, I must be bored …. :D)
Yeah, well.. Either Paul has been partying hard and forgot, or his scanner is giving trouble again (or some other gizmo needed for upload..)
In randomly going through the Archives, I realized that we have not seen Tina’s little kitty for a loooong time. I wonder how she is doing?
Yeah. And what ever happened to Stinky? Is he ok or had he been made into calamari fritti with garlic oil and hot peppers by the U-boat explosion?? (I’ve also been wondering if he could be related to Doc’s fridge monster. The resemblance is striking and the vocalizations very similar.)
Cliffhangers are twice as painful when they’re late.
*twitch* *shudder*
argh
Oh, good — I’m not the only one.
It’s strictly coincidence that I’m still awake at this time, when I should’ve been in bed about 5 hours ago.
*whimper*
I dó hope everything is allright in Minneapolis, because this is the first time that I can remember it took thís long for the update… *worries for a bit*
10:26 A.M. EST Nothing yet…Its gonna be a Looooong Weekend.
Can I wish my wife a Happy 16th Anniversary? YES? OK!
happy anniversary! many happy returns of the day!! 😀
my parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary…i told mama she is now officially an old fart. she smacked me and i still havent figured out why! 0;)
I’d have been tempted to riposite “OK, then, a YOUNG fart!”–and been smacked again.
There also hasn’t been much in the way of updates on his FB account or fan page… {deep_concern_mode=ON}
200! Just for the hell of it……..I too am getting scared.
Had a dream of half-finished panels portraying Shelly falling asleep on a drawing board, before waking up to this.
So let’s not panic, everybody.
As of now, heck with the update, hope you’re OK Paul
I know I’m five years late, but…
Paul, I believe the word you were looking for was “Werk.” 😉