Given the fact that Bud’s hatred and anger apparently triggered the chimera but good.. Yeah.. Why not destroy this civilization too, because You mucked-up, and let your jealousy of Jin’s “human-ness”get the better of you.
I hope Brandy strarts rubbing Bud’s bratty nose in that simple fact. Brandi seems the type to be aware of what drives Bud. Being roomies for aeons would do that.
I think that’s a bit harsh.
Yeah, rub Bud’s “bratty nose” in the “fact” that her (COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED) anger is the cause of the death of thousands, and that the priests that kidnapped, raped, and murdered her, Brandi, and Jin had no hand in it.
All of these girls have a lot of stuff that I would perfectly understand anyone having chips on their shoulders about. And like Eee mentioned below, given the fact that Bud could have thrown that bottle hard enough to have it go THROUGH the house shows that she has not totally lost her temper (the would would be missing a hemisphere if that was the case). She’s just boiling on the inside and wants to throw a bit of a snit.
Bud needs a mother right now, and since Brandi’s a good mother figure I’m glad they’re roomies. Having a ‘tude doesn’t deal with a friend’s almost suicide, you know what I mean?
Forget the house. These two girls took out a sizeable chunk of the planet one time and the only reason they didn’t do more was Jin was trying to hold them back!
The Brandi who told her story to that fly (who then flew into a bug zapper) would not destroy the world now.
Neither would the Bud who bawled her eyes out because Shelly believed she was a monster.
They have changed. Living things are safe i suspect. Inanninmate objects….not so much 🙂
Under normal circumstances, I’d say you are right. If, however, Bud was threatened by something, Brandi would do whatever it would take to save her and to heck with whatever real-estate, chunk of the planet, or organism that stood in the way; I believe the reverse would also be true. Since it would take something truly alarming to do this, I think the world’s safe.
Hurling golf balls and drinking tequila is a good way to safely let off steam. When Bud does things like this it reaffirms her humanity. She might be a golem, but she is still human.
Wait! What? The poor little fly flew into a bug zapper? I must have missed something. Was there another fly? I remember the spider in Tina’s eye, but not a fly burning.
i remembered it wrong 😛
sowhyme made the comment about the fly heading to spiders web to end it all. i remembered it as a bug zapper 😛
anyway didn’t really happen – just made me giggle at the time. its cannon in my memory 🙂
Of course she hasn’t calmed down. It’s kind of a grieving process. She’s partially grieving that her friend isn’t exactly like her anymore, she lost a similar person, and she’s also grieving her own immortality. Y’know?
To quote from Bujold, there IS something to be said for being so paralyzed (and then, the next day, so sick) that you can’t go out and do someting stupid…
DaveP- if your most monumental hangover only lasted 1 day then you were not trying hard enough. I once had a 3 day hangover and then when I got over it I no longer felt quite so strongly my grief.
Those stages of grief are a gross oversimplification of a complicated process that can vary greatly from person to person. For example, Bud, being rather irritable but well grounded in reality probably doesn’t do denial, or at least not very much of it.
…i meant to add that a friend of mine essentially lived himself to death* back in 1981) and i still occasionally find myself thinking of him as if he were still alive and getting upset with him for diing it…
=======================
*Dave was born with a number of congenital defects – a spine so severely curved he needed a back brace to stand, heart murmur, only about 40% lung capacity because of his spinal problems – he stood about to my shoulder (i’m six feet tall) and i’m pretty sue he would have been taller than me if not for his problems.
And fairly severely diabetic.
But he was generally cheerful and upbeat.
Some idiot doctor had told him he wouldn’t live to be thirty.
He did.
Up till then he’d been careful about his health; after that, having, i suppose, outlived the doctor’s prediction (and possibly the doctor), he loosened up.
Among other things, he loosened up on his diet, and began drinking quite a bit of beer, which i believe is contra-indicated for diabetics.
And, just before his thirty-first birthday, he attended both the Libertarian Party’s national convention, and the World Science Fiction Convention, held a week apart.
In Denver.
When my first wife and i arrived on the official first day of the WorldCon, a friend caught us in the registration line and told us that Dave had slipped into a diabetic coma and died the night before…
Thirty-one years ago, and i only knew him for three.
But sometimes i still find myself thinking, as if i could just call him up and ask, “Dave would know that…”
I find writing (in my case homilies) is sometimes a grief process: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and (finally) something I can use. More, they don’t come in nice, neat progression: Bud went from anger to quietness (either denial or depression) and back to anger.
..Hmm.. Could be fear, indeed.
Bud has known existence as a human faaaaar shorter than as an indestructible -basically immortal- golem.
It could be that Bud had a certain wish to be human again, but seeing the reality of Jin’s sudden frailty, pressed her nose in the real consequences of being human, and made her realize that actually fulfilling a dream, might be not as nice as she imagined.
Maybe Bud likes the indestructible-bit, especially because it was her vulnerability as a human that made it impossible to resist her kidnapping by the priests.
She has, on more than one occasion, stated that the soap-bubble like frailty of ordinary humans scared her to no end. And now, by tackling Jin, has she damaged/hurt a normal human.
It’s a bit convoluted, I know, but thinking about it, fear -as Paula stated- could have triggered her tantrum.
Seems Bud is jealous of Jin. Mortality And a GOOD boyfriend — a top notch combination for someone carrying the guilt/grief of having been 1. Murdered and 2. Responsible for the destruction of the entirety of civilization at the time of her murder (via rage using the Chimera). I touch on that issue here on page 2 of a fanfic writtten well before the Calendar Machine resolution.
Bud has a lot of issues to sort out now that Jin got her wish. None the least of which is what lies ahead for her?
Spider Robinson has said that. I’m not sure if he coined the phrase, and I think he overstates the case of anger always being fear in disguise, but the two are not all that far apart.
I can’t reach her through the screen. (Bud and Brandi could both use understanding boyfriends. I expect such fellows are in short enough supply even if you don’t need them to deal with immortal golem girls.)
Trouble in paradise. The roomies aren’t getting along all to well and hidden feelings are about to be unleashed.
Bud seems to be talking in more generalities now. She appears to have something gnawing at her about the state of the world and the people in it. She may be getting tired of hiding herself from it. Acting as if she’s just the same as everyone else. Major crisis may be looming. Bet she’s sorry she only got one bottle now.
Good thing they have separate bedrooms. They may soon have separate apartments. Fortunately she is suseptible to the knock out effects of alcohol so she should be sleeping it all off before long.
No matter how much we grow up–or how old the calendar says we are–we always have a bit of the child hidden in us, waiting to come out when we are under high stress.
And, of course, our parents can always see that in us.
You’re friends through thick and thin, go through unbelievable events and spend years upon years with each other, trying to “fix” things. Deep down, in all this time there’s only one thing you’ve ever wanted.
That friend who’ve you been doing everything you can for is now fixed and has the one thing you’ve wanted for thousands of years. Rather than appreciate it, she tries to throw it away or doesn’t once acknowledge how special a gift it is.
That’s what I think she’s so mad about. Not so much the fact that Jin got humanity that she wanted. But the fact that she doesn’t acknowledge what a gift it is, first thing she does is try to throw it away.
That said and done this could go very, very, very, badly. Or with an anti-climactic hug between the two with a crying/sad Bud.
If it does go bad I hope Brandi can get to Bud and poit her someplace like where the island used to be to minimize collateral damage.
Given that Bud could have thrown that bottle with enough force that it would have went THROUGH the house, I conclude she’s not really out of control, just very unhappy and acting out. I expect, if Brandi can talk her down, she’ll wind up unloading emotionally and feeling better. Eventually.
Right. She chose to have her temper tantrum at home in front of Brandi and now she’s making enough noise that Brandi won’t be able to ignore her. She wants Brandi’s help, but she doesn’t want to admit it.
Is Bud grieving her own immortality or the glyph readers’ control over it? Presumably any glyph reader could have carved the same symbol inside her as Maya carved in Jin. Would that have turned her to near normal, too? Perhaps they didn’t do it because they wanted to keep using her as a golem so they could intimidate the natives. If so, she might have just realized that she is a disposable object. Glyph readers can keep her around or destroy her at their whim. Maybe that thought hadn’t occurred to her before.
Oh no…Bud is angry. Well there goes that part of the world.
she might consider it
i 100% doubt she would do it.
unless she wants to die in which case that would be a very good way to get the ‘PTB’ to review her life case.
Given the fact that Bud’s hatred and anger apparently triggered the chimera but good.. Yeah.. Why not destroy this civilization too, because You mucked-up, and let your jealousy of Jin’s “human-ness”get the better of you.
I hope Brandy strarts rubbing Bud’s bratty nose in that simple fact. Brandi seems the type to be aware of what drives Bud. Being roomies for aeons would do that.
I think that’s a bit harsh.
Yeah, rub Bud’s “bratty nose” in the “fact” that her (COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED) anger is the cause of the death of thousands, and that the priests that kidnapped, raped, and murdered her, Brandi, and Jin had no hand in it.
All of these girls have a lot of stuff that I would perfectly understand anyone having chips on their shoulders about. And like Eee mentioned below, given the fact that Bud could have thrown that bottle hard enough to have it go THROUGH the house shows that she has not totally lost her temper (the would would be missing a hemisphere if that was the case). She’s just boiling on the inside and wants to throw a bit of a snit.
Edit: No Jin was not raped or murdered, but she was captured trying to help the girls and did kill herself.
Definitely in a snit…
Did she just empty that entire bottle of tequila? Wow, this is bad.
Taking into account that Bud is a mean drunk? Yes! This is very bad.
Mean drunk is one thing, lethal drunk is quite another.
Let’s remember, eh, that Bud has two literal hollow legs? Drunkashell, yeah, but lethal ain’t gonna be in it.
Destroying continents hardly seems to fit under the moniker ‘lethal’…
Yeah, “lethal” doesn’t seem quite . . . enough, somehow. We need some new adjectives.
How about “Moron Drunk”??
Cataclysmic drunk?
Armageddon-outa-here drunk?
Bud needs a mother right now, and since Brandi’s a good mother figure I’m glad they’re roomies. Having a ‘tude doesn’t deal with a friend’s almost suicide, you know what I mean?
I think mommabear is about to show herself..
Possibly tantrumgoat also
either way – i worry for the house…
Forget the house. These two girls took out a sizeable chunk of the planet one time and the only reason they didn’t do more was Jin was trying to hold them back!
The Brandi who told her story to that fly (who then flew into a bug zapper) would not destroy the world now.
Neither would the Bud who bawled her eyes out because Shelly believed she was a monster.
They have changed. Living things are safe i suspect. Inanninmate objects….not so much 🙂
Under normal circumstances, I’d say you are right. If, however, Bud was threatened by something, Brandi would do whatever it would take to save her and to heck with whatever real-estate, chunk of the planet, or organism that stood in the way; I believe the reverse would also be true. Since it would take something truly alarming to do this, I think the world’s safe.
Hurling golf balls and drinking tequila is a good way to safely let off steam. When Bud does things like this it reaffirms her humanity. She might be a golem, but she is still human.
Wait! What? The poor little fly flew into a bug zapper? I must have missed something. Was there another fly? I remember the spider in Tina’s eye, but not a fly burning.
@eschmenk
i remembered it wrong 😛
sowhyme made the comment about the fly heading to spiders web to end it all. i remembered it as a bug zapper 😛
anyway didn’t really happen – just made me giggle at the time. its cannon in my memory 🙂
I’ve been in Buds shoes, but I’ve been in Jins too… so yeah.
You’ve annihilated a high civilization and time looped for upwards of 80,000 years?
Would it help to talk about it?
umm no, can’t say as I’ve done that.
Wore stylish yet affordable boots?
(Thank you, Joss Whedon)
How well did their shoes fit?
Y’know
I got from her chatting to monica that she had calmed down
this … tantrum has me a tad confuzzled.
Of course she hasn’t calmed down. It’s kind of a grieving process. She’s partially grieving that her friend isn’t exactly like her anymore, she lost a similar person, and she’s also grieving her own immortality. Y’know?
Well, from experience, I can tell that trying to drown grief in tequila(or home-made wine..), does -most definetively- not work.
Grief’s a bloody good swimmer.
despite rumers neither does chocolate ice-cream.
I think the only thing that does help with grief is just time.
Everything else just hides it for a short time. It is always there…lurking.
Quite right. Time is the only remedy. You just have to suffer through it. One never really gets over it, just gets past it, eventually.
To quote from Bujold, there IS something to be said for being so paralyzed (and then, the next day, so sick) that you can’t go out and do someting stupid…
DaveP- if your most monumental hangover only lasted 1 day then you were not trying hard enough. I once had a 3 day hangover and then when I got over it I no longer felt quite so strongly my grief.
doesnt grief have stages though?
she should be on denial now?
Those stages of grief are a gross oversimplification of a complicated process that can vary greatly from person to person. For example, Bud, being rather irritable but well grounded in reality probably doesn’t do denial, or at least not very much of it.
Grief/fear reaction/anger/etc. is a cyclic process.
…i meant to add that a friend of mine essentially lived himself to death* back in 1981) and i still occasionally find myself thinking of him as if he were still alive and getting upset with him for diing it…
=======================
*Dave was born with a number of congenital defects – a spine so severely curved he needed a back brace to stand, heart murmur, only about 40% lung capacity because of his spinal problems – he stood about to my shoulder (i’m six feet tall) and i’m pretty sue he would have been taller than me if not for his problems.
And fairly severely diabetic.
But he was generally cheerful and upbeat.
Some idiot doctor had told him he wouldn’t live to be thirty.
He did.
Up till then he’d been careful about his health; after that, having, i suppose, outlived the doctor’s prediction (and possibly the doctor), he loosened up.
Among other things, he loosened up on his diet, and began drinking quite a bit of beer, which i believe is contra-indicated for diabetics.
And, just before his thirty-first birthday, he attended both the Libertarian Party’s national convention, and the World Science Fiction Convention, held a week apart.
In Denver.
When my first wife and i arrived on the official first day of the WorldCon, a friend caught us in the registration line and told us that Dave had slipped into a diabetic coma and died the night before…
Thirty-one years ago, and i only knew him for three.
But sometimes i still find myself thinking, as if i could just call him up and ask, “Dave would know that…”
I find writing (in my case homilies) is sometimes a grief process: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and (finally) something I can use. More, they don’t come in nice, neat progression: Bud went from anger to quietness (either denial or depression) and back to anger.
The half-asleep..
Is bud…scared?
Someone said a couple of weeks ago that all anger comes from fear.
..Hmm.. Could be fear, indeed.
Bud has known existence as a human faaaaar shorter than as an indestructible -basically immortal- golem.
It could be that Bud had a certain wish to be human again, but seeing the reality of Jin’s sudden frailty, pressed her nose in the real consequences of being human, and made her realize that actually fulfilling a dream, might be not as nice as she imagined.
Maybe Bud likes the indestructible-bit, especially because it was her vulnerability as a human that made it impossible to resist her kidnapping by the priests.
She has, on more than one occasion, stated that the soap-bubble like frailty of ordinary humans scared her to no end. And now, by tackling Jin, has she damaged/hurt a normal human.
It’s a bit convoluted, I know, but thinking about it, fear -as Paula stated- could have triggered her tantrum.
Seems Bud is jealous of Jin. Mortality And a GOOD boyfriend — a top notch combination for someone carrying the guilt/grief of having been 1. Murdered and 2. Responsible for the destruction of the entirety of civilization at the time of her murder (via rage using the Chimera). I touch on that issue here on page 2 of a fanfic writtten well before the Calendar Machine resolution.
Bud has a lot of issues to sort out now that Jin got her wish. None the least of which is what lies ahead for her?
Botched link. Look here if your so inclined.
Jin has abandoned Bud and Brandi again. That’s what Bud’s feeling.
Atomic, that was a great little story. You have one hell of an imagination going on.
Spider Robinson has said that. I’m not sure if he coined the phrase, and I think he overstates the case of anger always being fear in disguise, but the two are not all that far apart.
Bud, Bud, Bud.. Don’t get Brandi to go all “Giant Lion-Mom”on Ya!!
You’ll be sorry.
Wonder if Shelly lives nearby.
Maybe Shellinx will join the toussle 😀
Aye. Brandi’s got eons of dealing with Bud and Jin raging at the same time, Bud on her own is barely a challenge. (>^_^)>
Actually, Monica’s the only one who can get Bud to toe the line without taking out the city in the process.
That’s what I was thinking — with one Word.
Ahhh. She needs a hug. Somebody give here a hug. I’m too scared.
I can’t reach her through the screen. (Bud and Brandi could both use understanding boyfriends. I expect such fellows are in short enough supply even if you don’t need them to deal with immortal golem girls.)
Trouble in paradise. The roomies aren’t getting along all to well and hidden feelings are about to be unleashed.
Bud seems to be talking in more generalities now. She appears to have something gnawing at her about the state of the world and the people in it. She may be getting tired of hiding herself from it. Acting as if she’s just the same as everyone else. Major crisis may be looming. Bet she’s sorry she only got one bottle now.
Good thing they have separate bedrooms. They may soon have separate apartments. Fortunately she is suseptible to the knock out effects of alcohol so she should be sleeping it all off before long.
Separate apartments in separate (ruinous) buildings without moving, yet.
“Quit trying to be my mother!”
Ooooh.
Interesting time ahead.
If she made it easy for Brandi to mother her, it wouldn’t count as much when Brandi did it.
There’s hope. She says she’s not a child to be talked down from a tantrum, but that pretty much means that she admits it’s a tantrum.
No matter how much we grow up–or how old the calendar says we are–we always have a bit of the child hidden in us, waiting to come out when we are under high stress.
And, of course, our parents can always see that in us.
…some of us have just been around longer…”
You’re friends through thick and thin, go through unbelievable events and spend years upon years with each other, trying to “fix” things. Deep down, in all this time there’s only one thing you’ve ever wanted.
That friend who’ve you been doing everything you can for is now fixed and has the one thing you’ve wanted for thousands of years. Rather than appreciate it, she tries to throw it away or doesn’t once acknowledge how special a gift it is.
That’s what I think she’s so mad about. Not so much the fact that Jin got humanity that she wanted. But the fact that she doesn’t acknowledge what a gift it is, first thing she does is try to throw it away.
That said and done this could go very, very, very, badly. Or with an anti-climactic hug between the two with a crying/sad Bud.
If it does go bad I hope Brandi can get to Bud and poit her someplace like where the island used to be to minimize collateral damage.
Given that Bud could have thrown that bottle with enough force that it would have went THROUGH the house, I conclude she’s not really out of control, just very unhappy and acting out. I expect, if Brandi can talk her down, she’ll wind up unloading emotionally and feeling better. Eventually.
Right. She chose to have her temper tantrum at home in front of Brandi and now she’s making enough noise that Brandi won’t be able to ignore her. She wants Brandi’s help, but she doesn’t want to admit it.
I like this thread–it rings true. Bud is asking for help, but not letting it get out of hand. Maturity–of a sort.
Drunken superpower with homicidal rage. Not a good thing. Big lion sitting on would be a Good Thing.
though that may lead Bud to step it up too…
Now, we’ll see how well Brandi handles her “sister”.
Is Bud grieving her own immortality or the glyph readers’ control over it? Presumably any glyph reader could have carved the same symbol inside her as Maya carved in Jin. Would that have turned her to near normal, too? Perhaps they didn’t do it because they wanted to keep using her as a golem so they could intimidate the natives. If so, she might have just realized that she is a disposable object. Glyph readers can keep her around or destroy her at their whim. Maybe that thought hadn’t occurred to her before.
See, now that, I could understand Bud being mad about. Mostly because, if i remember correctly, she has been mad about that before.
Oh, No!
Now it’s Bud’s turn to have a Break Down.
Preferably on a foggy mountain somewhere where no-one will see…
I C wut U did ther
That would clinch it, yes.
Perhaps if someone gets some special orange blossoms for her, she might relax! Wildwood flowers may help too.
Oh, frak!
Good time to be elsewhere, like the far side of the Andromeda galaxy!