No kidding. I mean, sure, nadette may need to see she could think for herself about it, but the manipulative… Ugh. This just feels like emotional abuse to me.
Agreed… this conversation makes me hair out all over. YOUR JOB IS TO SEE WHEN KIDS ARE BEING RAILROADED. PERHAPS WHEN IT HAPPENS TEACH THEM TO PROTECT AGAINST IT INSTEAD OF BECOMING THE “DOMINANT” PASSIVE ABUSER.
Passive-aggressive is based on unresolved, unexpressed, semi-unconscious anger/criticism and not admitting to or letting the anger/criticism come to the conscious surface. I wouldn’t call this passive agressive at all. The counselor, Ms. Alger, knows exactly what she is doing and it’s not centered on unconscious anger. Her attitude is very much out there.
Passive aggressive is like when someone is angry and critical of someone important in their life, but doesn’t want to admit to themselves about being angry/critical, and does something or says something that hurts them “accidentally”, like buying a person chocolate on Valentine’s day, who is allergic to chocolate – “Oh, I forgot. I’m sorry, but aren’t you going to eat some?” See? unresolved anger and may even be “oblivious but not” – of the deed.
While Ms Alger comes across more as sarcastic, it is very much conscious and based on bringing light to consciously point out Nadette’s avoiding this talk with her mother. I think it’s valid technique in this case, leading Nadette to see the end result of her not addressing this.
But then being in the field, I’m probably wrong, and should allow a “lack of some people digging a little deeper into understanding” to take the lead.
See what I did there? Not passive aggressive but straight on pointing out something. More like sarcasm.
A bit of an assumption, that she’s being “pressured”. But now that she’s planted that idea into a malleable, potentially rebellious teenage mind, the fact that Nadette’s always loved her family business may have no bearing anymore…
Yes, she may be right, but she should do some checking before driving a wedge into a family relationship. It’s not just passive aggressive, it’s pretty irresponsible.
Given that she seems to be communication with Mother separately, I have to wonder if this hasn’t been cooked up with the Family, possibly as a way to help kick Nadette out of the Relationship/Seer-blinding that was talked about in the previous day’s comments.
Note that ‘Dette’s word choice. She has twice now expressed that her mom is *making* her learn her mother’s construction company. Not showing her the ropes, answering her questions, but using terms that imply being forced unwilling into a specific direction. I’d say Mrs Alger’s perception is not far from accurate and she is applying reverse psychology to get Nadette to see that she has options.
I can appreciate the teacher trying to broaden Nadette’s horizons, but she is doing it in a horrible way. Nadette is a smart girl, no need to manipulate her if you have something to say.
I have difficulty with algebra, but can do applied math fine. I don’t consider myself unintelligent. It wasn’t until I took a class for algebra taught by someone that new how to teach a bunch of artists that I had any real luck with it. Just as Atsali found a way to help dette with her difficulty. She’s not stupid. She hard a hard time with a school subject.
She could be as smart as Charles Darwin one of the many people who had so much impact but struggled in math. The lack of a subject does not make her a dunce.
This isn’t real life. It’s a cartoon. Everything in the cartoon is there to make a point. Paul doesn’t spoon feed us his meanings though. We have to think. Maybe the math difficulty was there to illustrate Atsali’s and Nadette’s relationship and I should disregard it now. Or maybe he’ll pick it up to make some other point. This ain’t Peanuts.
@samuraieagle: That’s an urban legend. Einstein was apparently outstanding in maths and science, but failed the non-science component of the entrance exam at the Federal Poytechnic School in Zurich when he was 16.
Well…yes. Nadette is smart, but that doesn’t mean that she isn’t neglecting her own dreams in favor of a perceived familial obligation. I was guilty of that kind of thing as a teen, and it took a lot of work to knock me out of a path that I wasn’t really interested in walking. Bluntly addressing it with me didn’t work either since I was trying to appear happy about what I was working towards because I thought I was supposed to be…because making other people happy meant more to me than my own happiness, and smart as I was, it didn’t occur to me that those other people loved me enough for my happiness to matter more to them than anything else.
This! I’m personally a victim of this. Growing up in a family business, I was always pressured to find a ” real job “, which meant not continuing in the business. I mean, sure, I can take care of myself and have my own job and family, BUT that’s not to mean I wouldn’t have enjoyed taking on the reins and enjoy being thought the ways of the company. A lot of what I do today is very similar, but it took me to a town away from my parents and siblings, which I love.
Someone needs to eat this bitch, and not in a fun pleasant (for her) way!!
What if Dette wants to take over the Family Business? Just because it is a construction business does not mean Dette would be actually doing any of the constructing
Interesting how people are reacting to Ms. Alger. If you simply take what she says at face value, then everything is fine. There’s nothing troubling to it unless Nadette finds something troubling in considering her future. It’s the sort of approach that’s precisely the best of both worlds.
I suck when it comes to Algebra, Trig and Physics… and I’m not even in the same galaxy when it comes to Boolean Algebra and the new stuff. But when applied to realistic applications such as building and construction, it makes more sense and is more comprehensive. As for the Counselor? Manipulative damage achieved. What has been seen cannot be unseen.
If Ms. Alger is good at her job this may be an effort to blast Miss Starr loose from an unhappy mental rut with respect to her future by taking advantage of teenage rebellious nature.
True, Miss Starr may come back to the family business in the end, but it will be with a much healthier mindset; one of positive enthusiasm rather than fatalism.
I would like to think Ms Alger is not going for “secret manipulation,” because she’s terribly obvious. more think she’s trying to force Nadette to give her a real response to the question of “what do you want to do with your life?” If it’s “I want to take over the family business,” or “I want to be my own woman and raise goats” or even “I want to spend all my family money.” All of those start with “I want,” at least, and have more personal intent than “My family has money.” Of course, the last might prompt more counseling, but socialite IS a career choice, just not one that high school can really prepare you for. TL;DR: Ms Alger didn’t distribute all those forms for the lulz. Nadette owes her a real answer.
i don’t know if it’s just me or if it really seems this way to others, but it looks like Ms. Alger is about 3 foot tall and continuously tilting her head upward like she’s staring at something on the ceiling even though her eyes are looking at Nadette directly, that is directly down her nose (almost looking at her own upper LIP!)… even if she’s sitting at a desk (as i’m assuming she is in panel 2 at least) it STILL seems she has her head tilted WAAAYYYY too far upward to be in a naturally comfortable position… is it just ME?
I don’t think she’s tilted that far back, but she is acting like a teacher, maintaining dominance, even though she’s sitting and Nadette is standing. It suggests alpha behavior to me, and well observed on Paul’s part.
Ah, passive-aggressive guidance counseling….
No kidding. I mean, sure, nadette may need to see she could think for herself about it, but the manipulative… Ugh. This just feels like emotional abuse to me.
yea that’s manipulative passive aggressive written AAAAAAAAAAAALLLL over it
Agreed… this conversation makes me hair out all over. YOUR JOB IS TO SEE WHEN KIDS ARE BEING RAILROADED. PERHAPS WHEN IT HAPPENS TEACH THEM TO PROTECT AGAINST IT INSTEAD OF BECOMING THE “DOMINANT” PASSIVE ABUSER.
Passive-aggressive is based on unresolved, unexpressed, semi-unconscious anger/criticism and not admitting to or letting the anger/criticism come to the conscious surface. I wouldn’t call this passive agressive at all. The counselor, Ms. Alger, knows exactly what she is doing and it’s not centered on unconscious anger. Her attitude is very much out there.
Passive aggressive is like when someone is angry and critical of someone important in their life, but doesn’t want to admit to themselves about being angry/critical, and does something or says something that hurts them “accidentally”, like buying a person chocolate on Valentine’s day, who is allergic to chocolate – “Oh, I forgot. I’m sorry, but aren’t you going to eat some?” See? unresolved anger and may even be “oblivious but not” – of the deed.
While Ms Alger comes across more as sarcastic, it is very much conscious and based on bringing light to consciously point out Nadette’s avoiding this talk with her mother. I think it’s valid technique in this case, leading Nadette to see the end result of her not addressing this.
But then being in the field, I’m probably wrong, and should allow a “lack of some people digging a little deeper into understanding” to take the lead.
See what I did there? Not passive aggressive but straight on pointing out something. More like sarcasm.
And we find out Nadette and Berdine’s family name.
A bit of an assumption, that she’s being “pressured”. But now that she’s planted that idea into a malleable, potentially rebellious teenage mind, the fact that Nadette’s always loved her family business may have no bearing anymore…
Yes, she may be right, but she should do some checking before driving a wedge into a family relationship. It’s not just passive aggressive, it’s pretty irresponsible.
Given that she seems to be communication with Mother separately, I have to wonder if this hasn’t been cooked up with the Family, possibly as a way to help kick Nadette out of the Relationship/Seer-blinding that was talked about in the previous day’s comments.
I suspect that this is the sort of thing that happened to me in my junior-high days – which i only found out about when i was in my late fifties…
Note that ‘Dette’s word choice. She has twice now expressed that her mom is *making* her learn her mother’s construction company. Not showing her the ropes, answering her questions, but using terms that imply being forced unwilling into a specific direction. I’d say Mrs Alger’s perception is not far from accurate and she is applying reverse psychology to get Nadette to see that she has options.
I have a notion Nadette might have been hoping for more. And Ms. Alger knows it.
I notice Nadette has switched from “my mom is teaching me” to “my mom is making me learn.”
Hmmm…
OMG, Alger? As in Hiss? What, is she part snake?
I guess that explains her advising style… XD
I do see something a little Jin-like in her expression in that second panel. Don’t know whether that’s snake, or just manipulation.
It’s the last name, though–could be Alger as in Horatio. “Go west, young woman! Succeed on your own merits!”
I do not appreciate this sort of manipulation.
No. And I’m hoping, hoping, nadette puts her in her place for it. She needs a nudge, not a guilt trip.
Yes, nothing like ‘your life is over, you are going to be in construction, what a waste of a good mind….’ to make her THINK! 🙂
I can appreciate the teacher trying to broaden Nadette’s horizons, but she is doing it in a horrible way. Nadette is a smart girl, no need to manipulate her if you have something to say.
Well, how smart is she if she can’t do algebra? Just asking.
I have difficulty with algebra, but can do applied math fine. I don’t consider myself unintelligent. It wasn’t until I took a class for algebra taught by someone that new how to teach a bunch of artists that I had any real luck with it. Just as Atsali found a way to help dette with her difficulty. She’s not stupid. She hard a hard time with a school subject.
She could be as smart as Charles Darwin one of the many people who had so much impact but struggled in math. The lack of a subject does not make her a dunce.
This isn’t real life. It’s a cartoon. Everything in the cartoon is there to make a point. Paul doesn’t spoon feed us his meanings though. We have to think. Maybe the math difficulty was there to illustrate Atsali’s and Nadette’s relationship and I should disregard it now. Or maybe he’ll pick it up to make some other point. This ain’t Peanuts.
Einstein was terrible @ maths…
@samuraieagle: That’s an urban legend. Einstein was apparently outstanding in maths and science, but failed the non-science component of the entrance exam at the Federal Poytechnic School in Zurich when he was 16.
Well…yes. Nadette is smart, but that doesn’t mean that she isn’t neglecting her own dreams in favor of a perceived familial obligation. I was guilty of that kind of thing as a teen, and it took a lot of work to knock me out of a path that I wasn’t really interested in walking. Bluntly addressing it with me didn’t work either since I was trying to appear happy about what I was working towards because I thought I was supposed to be…because making other people happy meant more to me than my own happiness, and smart as I was, it didn’t occur to me that those other people loved me enough for my happiness to matter more to them than anything else.
This! I’m personally a victim of this. Growing up in a family business, I was always pressured to find a ” real job “, which meant not continuing in the business. I mean, sure, I can take care of myself and have my own job and family, BUT that’s not to mean I wouldn’t have enjoyed taking on the reins and enjoy being thought the ways of the company. A lot of what I do today is very similar, but it took me to a town away from my parents and siblings, which I love.
In the end the company was sold off.
Someone needs to eat this bitch, and not in a fun pleasant (for her) way!!
What if Dette wants to take over the Family Business? Just because it is a construction business does not mean Dette would be actually doing any of the constructing
Didn’t know her last name was “Starr.” Did it come up before and I missed the reference? It’s not in the cast listing…
No, i think this is the first time we’ve run across it.
Interesting how people are reacting to Ms. Alger. If you simply take what she says at face value, then everything is fine. There’s nothing troubling to it unless Nadette finds something troubling in considering her future. It’s the sort of approach that’s precisely the best of both worlds.
^This. 🙂
I suck when it comes to Algebra, Trig and Physics… and I’m not even in the same galaxy when it comes to Boolean Algebra and the new stuff. But when applied to realistic applications such as building and construction, it makes more sense and is more comprehensive. As for the Counselor? Manipulative damage achieved. What has been seen cannot be unseen.
Yeezus…passive/aggressive much, Miz Alger?
If Ms. Alger is good at her job this may be an effort to blast Miss Starr loose from an unhappy mental rut with respect to her future by taking advantage of teenage rebellious nature.
True, Miss Starr may come back to the family business in the end, but it will be with a much healthier mindset; one of positive enthusiasm rather than fatalism.
I would like to think Ms Alger is not going for “secret manipulation,” because she’s terribly obvious. more think she’s trying to force Nadette to give her a real response to the question of “what do you want to do with your life?” If it’s “I want to take over the family business,” or “I want to be my own woman and raise goats” or even “I want to spend all my family money.” All of those start with “I want,” at least, and have more personal intent than “My family has money.” Of course, the last might prompt more counseling, but socialite IS a career choice, just not one that high school can really prepare you for. TL;DR: Ms Alger didn’t distribute all those forms for the lulz. Nadette owes her a real answer.
i don’t know if it’s just me or if it really seems this way to others, but it looks like Ms. Alger is about 3 foot tall and continuously tilting her head upward like she’s staring at something on the ceiling even though her eyes are looking at Nadette directly, that is directly down her nose (almost looking at her own upper LIP!)… even if she’s sitting at a desk (as i’m assuming she is in panel 2 at least) it STILL seems she has her head tilted WAAAYYYY too far upward to be in a naturally comfortable position… is it just ME?
I don’t think she’s tilted that far back, but she is acting like a teacher, maintaining dominance, even though she’s sitting and Nadette is standing. It suggests alpha behavior to me, and well observed on Paul’s part.
I’m firmly in the “Ms. Alger REALLY wants her to consider all her options, and the passive-aggressive act is a way to get her attention” camp.
I’m really wondering what was in that email to Nadette’s mom, though…….
A guidance counselor who creates the problems that require her assistance to solve?
Something seems… cockeyed about this; I can’t put my hoof on just what.